rollbar
Hello all, I have a problem.
I have this intake,
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_1782.sized.jpg[/img]
and carb on this intake (4776-5 // 2690).
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_2214.sized.jpg[/img]
and the POwners father said this motor came out of his sons running/driving Jeep (showed me pictures etc). Well I went to crank it today and wouldn't fire but that is besides the point.
I added the fluid to the radiator and the intake started leaking at the two bolts in the front AND I was seeing seepage along the valve cover (top).
1. So I guess I have to remove the intake and re-seal it, correct/of course?
2. What RTV should I use to re-seal it - Black/Blue?
3. When I pull the intake will it run down into the oil pan w/the new oil in it or will I be ok?
3b. It might be in the valley already, I just filled it and saw the leak, then pulled the rad hose off the intake so it would run where ever.
4. Please remember, I'm not a v8 guy and I ask some pretty simple questions for some, but for me .......
The intake is leaking at the two bolt front bolts just below where the finger is pointing,
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_1779.sized.jpg[/img]
and it is running along side both sides of the valve cover,
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_1780.sized.jpg[/img]
I am very tempted to put the stock intake back on, I just hop the motor is good, I'm going to do a compression test as well. I guess I should not have believed the guy but that's just my nature. I guess I should have done this before.
Old intake and carb,
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/Mechanical/100_1787.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/Mechanical/100_1788.sized.jpg[/img]
I don't have money so my options are limited unless MC has a motor sitting around :) , I'll send you this one.
I do have a 258, but it needs rebuilding and it is Peaches original motor going back in her Jeep. I would love to keep the v8 since everything was done already.
Just upset a little, I'm not going to tare into it either until I can find a gasket set.
Thanks for you help,
Jim
Old link to old post pics - [url]http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?17195-S.P.2-P-Edelbrock-Intake[/url]
rollbar
A friend of mine stopped by and said he had a spread bore carb if I wanted to get rid of that carb (metering valve body leaking real bad in the secondary bowl) and also a split bore if I wanted to put the stock manifold back on.
I'm thinking of putting the stock manifold back on (its off a different 360) and using his rebuilt carb.
Think I should?
I am just thinking of the aluminum intake and not knowing the history/cracked/been torqued on and off, not sure if that is a problem or not.
Once I have it off I guess I'll know better what to do.
Also performance wise, I don't know, I don't know if the guy beefed it up or not, but at any rate, the 360 is still a power house over the 258 for my needs.
Question, if I do run a stock manifold and save up for a carb, what carb should I buy?
Sorry for all the questions,
Thanks,
Jim
P.S. Got her to fire up today :) thanks again Bob for the use of the priming tool, shipping it back out tomorrow.
tufcj
I'd stick with the aluminum manifold. Did you replace the valley pan when you put the aluminum manifold on?
What I do is spray the valley pan around the intake ports (both sides) with Permatex copper spray. I like Permatex ultra gray around the water ports. Put it on the head around the 4 corner water ports, then set the valley pan in place. Go around the water ports on the valley pan before setting the manifold in place. Put a dab at each corner where the block meets the head. Torque the bolts to spec starting from the middle and work out. I've always had good luck with that method.
Bob
tufcj
rollbar
Bob when I got the jeep for my daughter the motor & trans was in it and then she didn't want the jeep (it was messed up) so I sold it and kept the motor/tranny. I did not install the intake.
We live in a small town (Fallon, Nevada) and I'll have to see if I can find the spray/grey. If not what about RTV ultra black?
I'm checking into a holley re-build kit as well.
Thanks,
Jim
msalaba
If you are going to pull the manifold to reseal it, drain the coolant first! There are 2 plugs (one on each side) of the block. They are in the middle just above the oil pan. These plugs drain the block. This will keep the coolant out of your oil.
You will need a new valley pan gasket. Do not use anything other than ultra gray around the ports. I used black once and wondered why I burn so much oil! Ultra gray is thinner and compresses more uniformly. You can throw away the rubber end gaskets and use ultra black there if you desire. I do this cause I have not had luck getting the rubber gaskets to seal 100%.
Hope that helps.
tufcj
Black RTV will work fine, but it's more for applications subject to oil. The gray is more suited for use where coolant is present.
[url]http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_Copper_Spray-A-Gasket_Hi-Temp_Adhesive_Sealant.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_Ultra_Grey_Rigid_High-Torque_RTV_Silicone_Gasket_Maker.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_permatex_ultra_black_maximum_oil_resistance_rtv_silicone_gasket_maker.htm[/url]
Bob
tufcj
msalaba
Black did not work for me. It set up too fast and didn't allow the manifold to fully "seat" which resulted in oil leaking into the intake ports.
There is a whole pile of manifold installation info here:
[URL]http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?18021-Stupid-intake-install-questions-part-1[/URL]
Including manufacturer data on the different RTV sealants. (with pictures:glasses2:)
msalaba
[QUOTE=msalaba;127115]Sealant 101:
[IMG]http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/148/m_b86d66f549f94860bc727f6b9b946e31.jpg[/IMG]
Return equipment to service immediately when you make leak-proof gaskets in just one minute with the Right Stuff.® This latest elastomeric rubber gasket technology is blowout resistant and outperforms pre-cut gaskets. Specified on production lines by GM, Ford, DaimlerChrysler and Mercedes-Benz. Temperature range -75°F to 450°F (-59°C to 232°C) continuous, 500°F (260°C) intermittent.; resists ATF, coolant, oil and other shop fluids. Protects against leaks caused by vibration and thermal expansion. Sensor-safe.
Suggested Applications: Automotive and marine gaskets, valve covers, gearbox covers, pumps, compressors, oil pans, thermostat housings, water pumps
[IMG]http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/138/m_539b139520df46758429b7a7aa215bcb.jpg[/IMG]
OEM specified. For dealership warranty requirements, ensures extended drivetrain warranty compliance. Fast-curing formula. Sensor safe, low odor, noncorrosive. Meets performance specs of OE silicone gaskets. Retains high flexibility, oil resistance properties through use of a patented adhesion system. Temperature range -65ºF to 500ºF (-54°C to 260°C) intermittent; resists auto and shop fluids and vibration.
Suggested Applications: Valve covers, oil pans, intake manifold end seals, timing covers, transmission pans
[IMG]http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/126/m_e9d741a67ef24dabb1686f32a4982038.jpg[/IMG]
OEM specified. Designed specially for high-torque and high vibration applications, like those common in import engines, this premium RTV gasket maker exceeds manufacturers' performance requirements. Noncorrosive and low-odor. Maximum vibration resistance, with outstanding resistance to oils, cooling and shop fluids. Guaranteed not to leak. Temperature range -65ºF to 500ºF (-54°C to 260°C) intermittent.
Suggested Applications: Valve covers, oil pans, intake manifold end seals, timing covers, water pumps, thermostat housings
[IMG]http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/134/m_e9bf676e4a194f43956c5c714632bbc2.jpg[/IMG]
OEM specified. Permatex® Ultra silicones were developed to meet today’s technology changes. Sensor-safe, low odor, noncorrosive. Outstanding oil resistance and joint movement values. Eight times more flexible than cork/composite gaskets; three times more oil resistant than conventional silicones. Temperature range -65ºF to 500ºF (-54°C to 260°C) intermittent; resists auto and shop fluids and vibration.
Suggested Applications: Valve covers, oil pans, timing covers, transmission pans, differential covers
[IMG]http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/148/l_b6395ffb1de44a03af47e255e8ca3fcf.jpg[/IMG]
Fast-drying, metallic copper sealant helps dissipate heat, prevents gasket burnout and improves heat transfer. Fills minor surface irregularities. Seals instantly. Fills hot spots and surface imperfections. Temperature range -50°F to 500°F (-45°C to 260°C); resists all types of automotive fluids, especially gasoline.
Suggested Applications: Cylinder head gaskets, carburetor gaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets and other high temperature applications
[IMG]http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/132/m_ead32c943f974625a2204dcc35731b6b.jpg[/IMG]
Fast-drying all-purpose sealant dries to a highly tacky, non-brittle film. A reliable general adhesive. Remains effective under temperatures of -65°F to 500°F (-54°C to 260°C). Resists gasoline, oil, antifreeze, axle lube, kerosene, propane and butane.
Suggested Applications: Valve covers, fuel pumps, carburetors, manifold gaskets; seals all felt, cork, metal, paper, rubber and asbestos gaskets
There is a reason for the different suggested applications. It has to so with material properties and density. The reason Ultra Gray is used around the water ports is that it is "thinner" than ultra black. It is more consistent under clamp loads. i.e. torqued intake manifold. Hence when I used Ultra Black, my engine ate oil.
The difference between copper coat and spray tack is the addition of copper. Copper is a high conductor and promotes heat transfer. I do not want to transfer any more heat from my heads to my intake than I have to. Copper coat on headers with copper gaskets would be adventageous due to heat transfer.
The Right Stuff is very dense and high bonding strength compared to Ultra Black. I use Right Stuff on my diff covers due to it's excellent bonding characteristics. I play in the rocks + axle parts are expensive = need for a great seal. When I drain the diff oil I take out all the bolts and literally chisel the cover off with a hammer and putty knife.
I'm not trying to be a dick, just offer some good tech.[/QUOTE]
The "High Torque" properties of the ultra grey make it ideal for the water port application. The only thing I can think of that would be better for this application is anerobic sealer. But that is $$$$.
rollbar
Thanks all, I'll re-read this tomorrow, busy day preaching/tired.
1. What is the torque for the intake bolts - round one, then the final torque?
2. Also what is the stuff you put on the thread AND, do you put it on the h20 jacket threads or use the grey on the h20 threads.
rollbar
NAPA has the Copper spray/Grey.
Thanks,
Jim
Old Rugged Crosser
[QUOTE=rollbar;129894]Thanks all, I'll re-read this tomorrow, busy day preaching/tired.[/QUOTE]
Jim, would you mind sharing with me a little more info concerning your quote? Are you a pastor?
rollbar
Minister/Evangelist/Preacher etc. yes.
I am qualified to be a Pastor/Bishop = same word/overseer in scripture. Qualified due to Biblical qualifications, husband of one wife/believing kids=faithful in all things/attendance etc. The world has really loosened up that word.
I'll check in later.
I did call NAPA and the have the grey/copper spray and the re-build kit for the 600cfm double pumper. I guess you know what I'll be doing Fri/Sat.
I'm going to install and let it sit over night, I'll take pics.
Thanks again,
Jim
Old Rugged Crosser
Jim, I'll bet you can get the gist of my moniker "The Old Rugged Crosser". It seemed to be a natural.
I have been following your posting of you rebuild for what--2 years now? It became evident to me that you are a man of great patience and detail. I'll bet that I would enjoy hearing your speaking. I really enjoy a good teaching style.
rollbar
I'm sure you will and it is right out of the Bible and in context, not my opinion at all.
I'm trying to get it done and yes, the build has taught me patience. Didn't have a lot of money to put into it, so I'm doing what I can. One the sides, under the word Jeep, I'm gonna put some steel w/a 1" 90* bend under the lip. I did use Por-15 and I just got it in from Fla and it sat out for a yr. NO RUST! That stuff is awesome.
This weekend I will do the intake and take pics :)
A special thanks to you all for your help, couldn't have done it w/out you all.
rollbar
OK guys here is what I bought from NAPA.
All they gave me was the metal one and now it's opened, it can't be returned, bummer.
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3023.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3022.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3021.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3020.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3019.sized.jpg[/img]
tufcj
The metal one is best for street use IMO. It baffles oil from splashing oil on the bottom of the manifold and being sucked into the PCV system. While you have the manifold off, check to be sure there's a tin pan on the bottom of it, it should have been transferred over from the stock manifold.
You'll see that the 4 corner bolt holes have a lip around them. Those snap into enlarged holes in the heads to hold it in place while you place the manifold. Some people delete the rubber end gaskets and just use a bead of black RTV. Personally, I've always used the end gaskets. Clean the block, heads, and intake thoroughly with brake cleaner before applying any sealant.
Bob
tufcj
rollbar
Thanks Bob, I'll check under the intake, I do have one on an old intake if needed.
Question, should I coat (thin) the black gasket w/the Ultra Grey, or use Ultra Black? I really don't want to put it on bare.
Thanks for the tips guys, pics coming.
rollbar
Forgot to ask, Bob, will the meal one be ok for off camber/mountains out west here?
tufcj
The end gaskets kind of lock over the block. I usually just clean the block with brake cleaner and set the end gaskets in place. A dab of ultra gray at the ends. If it makes you feel better, a thin coat over the entire length of the end gaskets won't hurt.
I've never run anything but the metal valley pans (those are what the factory used). The one person I know who ran the Chevy style paper gaskets had an oil consumption problem, and ended up tearing his engine back down and using the metal pan. If paper was better, don't you think the engineers would have used it? It probably would have saved money too.
Bob
tufcj
rollbar
Well I replaced the leaking intake gasket due to previous owners poor installation.
Removing the intake
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3035.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3036.sized.jpg[/img]
Intake gasket installed by previous owner
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3037.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3038.sized.jpg[/img]
Starting to remove the intake gasket
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3042.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3043.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3044.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3053.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3054.sized.jpg[/img]
Intake removed and flipped for cleaning, notice anything, no RTV etc
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3039.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3040.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3041.sized.jpg[/img]
Getting ready to clean the block etc
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3045.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3046.sized.jpg[/img]
Cleaned block not ready to scrape off where the intake goes
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3047.sized.jpg[/img]
