northplainsdrifter
Some background~
I recently put D44's in both ends of my CJ. The axles I bought had welded spiders in the rear and open in the front. I took the Powertrax No-Slip I had in the rear of my old axle and put it in the new front end leaving the rear welded. On my recent trip to the dunes, the rear carrier broke in half.
I've had the No-Slip for 6+ years in the rear end and have been very pleased with it, good off road and decent street manners. So my question is would it be good to buy a second No-Slip and run one in both ends? I would love a selectable, but it's not in the budget. My wife gave me $500 smackeroos last night! Love that girl! :lo1l:
So, any advice?
dan58
Can't go wrong with a good ol' Detroit. :lo1l:
northplainsdrifter
Do the Detroit's "unlock" one wheel while turning? My No-slip will as long as it's not under a load, throttle. I see they are on the high side of my allowance, over $500.
Dusty
Id go Pwoer Lok LSD or Air locker. I used to be a die hard detroit fan, "they never break and always work" what i have found is in off camber or tight turns that my detroit used to really push me and in situations where i had a tire up in the air the rear would ratchet every once in awhile and shock the tires causing me to slide off the line i was attempting. Point is my current setup is Air lockers F & R and the improved ability to control traction and keep things even more predictable than my detroit has been priceless. My Power lok was more predictable than that darned detroit withs its ratchet pop suprises at in-opportune times
So much so that I will not go back to a detroit for an extra $160 i upgraded from my broken (yes it broke) Detroit to an ARB and I am tickled.
I have four buddys that all have Early broncos, one with ARBs F&R like myself and three with detroits in the rear two just built high dollar HI-9 rear ends with 35 spline shafts they all have ARBs in front already they both used detroits again and after our recent trip to the rubicon (thier maiden voyages) they all three vented that they wished when they built thier rear ends they would have spent the extra couple hundred bucks for the selectability, they found on indian slabs the off camber combined with tight turns resulted in more than $200 worth of paint being scraped off on a Rock. All walked the exact same line, pretty much the only line they could take, all are good drivers but all found the wet granite combined with loose dirt and the locked up detroit over powering the steering of the front end made things mroe difficult than it was for the Rigs with F locked and rear end unlocked at that particular spot. food for though i have 9 years on my ARBs and never a single failure D44's F&R with alloy shafts F&R
Save money, trade in beer cans, sell your spare tire .... pay now or complain later. this sport is one of compromises but i find my diffs to be one spot where compromise usually equates to a higher price paid later.
maybe install a cheap Power Lok or open diff that you weld up for now and then save the pennies for what "you'd really like" there was a used ARB on pirate for $450 the other day.
Don't get me wrong detroit will do the job i just think there are gentler, more refined and definately more predictable devices out there
tufcj
I've got Dana 44s in both ends of my CJ. I'm running the old style Detroit in the front, one of the newer soft lockers in the rear. They're always there when you need them, and you don't have to think about them.
I haven't experienced the ratchet problem that Dusty described, but having a twin stick dana 300 so I can run 4-LO really helps the turning radius.
Bob
tufcj
northplainsdrifter
So should I drink more beer to save my cans for an ARB? :razz:
I'm really on the fence... I keep seeing used ARB's on Craigslist for decent prices, I'm just worried about buying a used locker. I'm in no hurry to buy a locker, I have a spare carrier and gears I'm going to throw in so I can drive it for now.
If I was to buy a used ARB, what other things do I need besides a compressor?
tufcj
The big thing with an ARB is the bearing on the pressure side, if the O-ring in it is damaged in any way it won't stay locked. It's a special bearing from ARB, and fairly pricey. Remember the bulkhead fittings and lines.
Bob
tufcj
northplainsdrifter
What about Ox Lockers? They are close in price to ARB's, maybe less if you buy the compressor.
tufcj
I haven't heard anything but good about the OX lockers. Pretty much like an ARB, but cable actuated. Part of the price is that nifty billet cover.
Bob
tufcj
Mudrat
Another thing to consider, used ring and pinions were set up and have stresses based on that first configuration. Reusing a R&P is not a good idea. Using a used 'locker' may have similar consequenses.
[quote=northplainsdrifter]So should I drink more beer to save my cans for an ARB? :razz:
I'm really on the fence... I keep seeing used ARB's on Craigslist for decent prices, I'm just worried about buying a used locker. I'm in no hurry to buy a locker, I have a spare carrier and gears I'm going to throw in so I can drive it for now.
If I was to buy a used ARB, what other things do I need besides a compressor?[/quote]
Dusty
[quote=tufcj]I haven't heard anything but good about the OX lockers. Pretty much like an ARB, but cable actuated. Part of the price is that nifty billet cover.
Bob
tufcj[/quote]
The detroit ratcheting was something that would happen alot on the granite and on the slick rock of MOAB or Rubicon. The tight tuning and ability to unlock sure shines when you are balancing on the tips of rocks with tires in the air....
I've also found certain lines like wh4 on fordyce where the ability to lock the front and unlock the rear has resulted in this jeep being able to walk lines that others were fighting due to their rears being locks and sliding off the edge of the rocks they were climbing. small example but an advantage none the less
check over on pirate board, for reviews the downside to the OX so far the only downside is the constant adjustments that have to be made.
The bearing isn't that bad now Timkin offers it as do a couple others god they used to be atrociously expensive. use a air over electric solenoid $55 for a HD unit froma big rig shop or buy one from ARB for the same price, put an air regulator in line after teh air tank and before the air solenoid, keep air pressure at or below 60 psi. use the handy dandy stock AMC brackets for a York and get your on board air and air for the ARB.
you'll be the final decision maker go ride or drive some rigs with these pieces of equipment in them. Seat time is what convinced me to spend the extra I was able to do a side by side comparison of my jeep to an equally setup jeep with ARBs on the same obstacle and I noticed a striking difference. you'll experience something too, you may decide for your type of area, driving style and wheeling the detroits are plenty, try out the OX in a rig with one and see the plus's and minus's and then go home and ponder it more, all while consuming more Beer to accumulate more .05 CA can deposits to redeem. Drink more then go onto randy's ring and pinion page, look up the differential off choice, grab credit card and then pleed with wife to forgive you and explain that you intend to save your cans to pay back the joint account
tufcj
[quote=Dusty]
The detroit ratcheting was something that would happen alot on the granite and on the slick rock of MOAB or Rubicon. The tight tuning and ability to unlock sure shines when you are balancing on the tips of rocks with tires in the air....
[/quote]
Been to Moab literally hundreds of times, run the vast majority of the trails out there, including Lions Back, been to the Rubicon twice, the only one in my group of 6 to make it through Little Sluice. Very seldom do the lockers on my CJ bang or ratchet. It will do it on the street, especially when I release the brake and it rolls backwards slightly before I apply power. Must be a driving style thing. I seldom touch the clutch unless I shift or stop, I use the gearing and torque of the engine, often lugging it down below 400 RPM. I also load the driveline before releasing the brake, again because the engine will lug down so well.
Bob
tufcj
Dusty
[quote=tufcj]
......... Must be a driving style thing. I seldom touch the clutch unless I shift or stop, I use the gearing and torque of the engine, often lugging it down below 400 RPM. I also load the driveline before releasing the brake, again because the engine will lug down so well.
Bob
tufcj[/quote]
Sounds like our driving styles are identical, its amazing how long axles last and how much smoother things are when you dont have to throttle down to to get through it..... I keep wanting to put AMC IDLE on my license plate but i dont think anyone these days would understand :wink:. It could be that i am just a sensitive winer.
Anyways i have noticed a difference since switching to the arbs F&R over my old detroits small difference yes but it does shine in strange spots and has definitely been noticed. not sure what to tell you on the ratchet pop its small but its something we all have talked about in our group and experienced the broncos, samuris and toyotas and my jeep have experienced it at one precarious time or another maybe my calling it rachet pop is not accurate but its something small thats definitely there. personally i never noticed until i swapped out the front detroit for an ARB then when i did the rear it was notable
