JERSEYJOE
A buddy of mine wants to use a Lakewood scattershield on his Jeep with a T-18 trans. Will this work? What rework needs to be done in addition to the change in bolt pattern ?
Are there any other cons?
fifesjeep
Why does he want to put a scatter shield on a T18? How does he plan on using it?... I can't imagine for performance, especially with the long shifts... Just curious...
JERSEYJOE
HE HAS BROKEN 2 STOCK ALUMINUM BELLHOUSINGS ON ROCKS. HE IS LOOKING FOR A STRONGER BELLHOUSING.
WILL THE T-18 FIT? I KNOW THE CENTER BORE IS LARGER AND THE BOLT PATTERN IS DIFFERENT. IS THERE ROOM ON THE LAKEWOOD TO REDRILL????
tufcj
I think he'll need to find an old one. The new Lakewood bells are deeper, like 8"-8.5", designed to fit trannies like the T-5 and such. So you would need a longer input for the T-18 (possibly custom), and crossmember and driveshaft mods.
The old ones were the same depth as the AMC bell, but I don't know if the index hole is the same as a T-18, they are pretty rare, and sell for big $$$ when they happen to pop up on ebay.
I'd say he just needs to build a heavy skid that ties the factory skid to the motor mounts, that way everything is protected.
I don't know how he's doing it. I've been crawling the toughest trails in the country, and never broken a bellhousing, although I did crack the ear for the clutch linkage off one.
Bob
tufcj
Jeep-Power
Joe-
Thanks for looking into this for me!
Thanks for all the feedback so far, folks!
I cracked it by trying to 'bump' over a ledge in competiton. I ended up jamming the entire drivetrain 4" up. That was in the fall-- I didn't find the cracks until the linkage mount fell off in Moab. #-o
The bellhousing I was using was origianlly fit to a Jeep T-4. As far as I know-- the T-5 had the same input length. The bellhousing I have is is 6.5" 'long'. The Lakewood I am interested in is 8" in length. From the little I know-- AMC built the V-8's with 8" deep b-housings and the I-6's with 6.5" b-housings.
Joe and I were discussing the mild differences in the input bearing reatainer bore in the two bellhousings. I was thinking that boring the Lakewood might be in order. That would certainly be a PITA.. It is only a difference of .020 at MOST-- so a little lathe work on the bearing retainer would probabally solve that issue.
Again-- I am looking into this as a remedy for the seemily weak aluminum housing. As a second option, was there ever a cast iron AMC/Jeep bellhouing that will work? What did they use before the 80's era aluminum b-housings?
There just seems to be a ton of conflicting info available on the AMC compatable transmissions and such. I think part of it is that with differnt manufacturers using the same model number transmissions, but they would each have the inputs and outputs made to their specific standards. :banghead:
all help and info is much appreciated! =D>
hugh
just curious but wouldn,t a heavy duty skid plate to protect the bellhousing work and be much cheaper?
tufcj
My CJ7 (1977) was a factory V8 3-speed. It had the shallow bell. I think all Jeep trucks, CJs, and Wagoneers used the shallow bell, the cars used a deeper bell. The new Lakewood bells are designed for a FORD T5, like out of a Mustang. The only T-18 you may find with a close input shaft would have been from a Jeep pickup with a I-6 and T-18, those used a 2" spacer behind a shallow bell. All the T-18 CJs I've ever seen are 6 1/2" except the ones behind the 225 V6, but those had the 4:1 low. Wagoneers and V8 Jeep trucks are close to 12" input shafts because they used a 6" spacer behind the shallow bell to move the shifter from under the dash.
Bob
tufcj
Jeep-Power
hugh wrotejust curious but wouldn,t a heavy duty skid plate to protect the bellhousing work and be much cheaper?
Yes, it certainly is! 🙂
The rouble is not with hitting the bellhousing, but in the structural aspect of it. It literally gets tweaked from the flexing and in my case jamming upwards of the drivetrain. I've seen bellhousings crack in vehicles that were in collisions. The reason mine cracked is similar...
Bob--
Just because I didn't state it earlier: I am running a Ford T-18 in a Jeep bellhousing that originally had a Jeep T-5 in it.
So ultimately the only issue I will have IF I were to try to install the Lakewood would be that the Ford T-18 transmission input shaft would be too short... correct?
and just to satisfy my curiosity... what is the input shaft bearing retainer OD and the input shaft length of the AMC T-10? I have dimensions on Chevy (4.686 x 6.50) and Ford (4.848 x 6.25)... does anyone have the Chrysler/Dodge dimensions too?
Thanks,
--Peter
Rogue Racer
tufcj wroteI think he'll need to find an old one. The new Lakewood bells are deeper, like 8"-8.5", designed to fit trannies like the T-5 and such.
The current Lakewood housings pn 15411 are built for GM transmissions and are 6.45" deep.
gschuld
Jeep-power,
I may just have what you need pal. I have a nice granny low t-18 out of a full size jeep/v8 combo. It has the longer input shaft that required the spacer between the factory bell and the tranny. I believe that the input shaft would actually be a shade LONG if an 8" bellhousing would be used. Having an input shaft shortened a tad is certainly much easier than the other way around. I also happen to have an extra vintage lakewood 8" steel bellhousing in nice shape. It would be a piece of cake to mount the motor 1 1/2" farther forward and leave the rest of the tranny/transfer case where it was supposed to be. I imagine that setup would be about bulletproof. I'm in Toms River, NJ, not too far from you. I have an extra factory aluminum jeep cj bell if you want to give the old way one more shot! Let me know if your interested. I have too much stuff hanging around.
George
732-966-7981
fifesjeep
I have a T18-1b granny tranny from a fullsize Jeep... I ordered the short shaft kit... and turned down the original shaft... I was going to send it to moser to have the re-spline it but it still sits in the box to go out the door... So, it's looking like I'll most likely toss it away...
Jeep-Power
I was looking at the 15411. As my buddies will agree-- I have a hard time buying new stuff. I always figure I can get a scratch-n-dent for a fraction of the cost. :wink:
I am also hesitant in buying new because it seems to me that I will have to shave about 3" off the bottom of the Lakewood, in order to match the ground clearnace of the OEM design.
gschuld, thanks for the offer, it is tempting! I want to keep it simple as for now-- moving the engine forward is a little more than I wnat to get into right now. I'm anxiouos to get it back on the road/trail. If the 'aluminum bellhousing gremlin' continues to haunt me, we may get to shake hands. :)
For now, JerseyJoe set me up with a shallow aluminum b-housing. I am going to keep my ears/eyes peeled for one of those 6.5" AMC Lakewoods. Who knows, I may even find one of the 15411's used. We'll see.... [-o<
gschuld
No problem.
Just as a thought though. Moving the engine forward would only require making two plates that offset the engine forward in relation to the factory engine mounts that would remain. I do agree though that finding one of those elusive 6.5 lakewood bells would be the best option for you. I haven't seen one come up on e-bay for a while now. Give me a shout sometime though as I intend to do some SERIOUS house cleaning with all my JC stuff. I have tons of 76-79 stuff. Frames, axles, trannys, transfer cases, driveshafts, body parts, fiberglass cj-5 tub,fenders,and hood, AMC v-8 engines, intakes, exhaust, 15x10 wheels, lifted springs, etc. Tell JerseyJoe it's time for him to finally get down to see me as well :mrgreen: . I've got some good stuff and I'll give good deals. Otherwise, it's time for E-bay :shock: !
George
Jeep-Power
Thanks to everyone for the help on this--
I'm glad Joe steered me to this site-- I'll be lurking.... :sa:
JERSEYJOE
GEORGE I KNOW I AM OVERDUE FOR A VISIT. I WILL BE DOWN VERY SOON SO WE CAN SHOOT THE SH*T FOR A TIME. I KNOW I WILL BE NEEDING A FLOOR TRANS COVER FOR A 77-79 CJ WITH A T-18. MY PRESENT COVER HAS BEEN CUT UP AND WELDED A FEW TIMES AND I WANT A DECENT ONE.
gschuld
JERSEY JOE,
Of all the stuff I have around, you ask me for the one thing I do not have. For some reason, I always end up with late 70s CJs with 304s and t-150 3 speeds :mrgreen: . Oh well. Seriously, it's time for me to thin the herd of CJ stuff.
Give me a call when you are ready to come down.
George
732-966-7981
JERSEYJOE
What about a transmission crossmember for an early CJ 7? Not sure how many different ones there are but it is for a T-18.
tufcj
Only 2 skids for a 76-86 CJ5 or CJ7. They used the first one from 76-79 for the T-150, T-18, and Model 20 equipped models. The skid changed in 1980 for the T-176, T-4, T-5 and Dana 300 models. I have the newer skid under my 77 because it has better ground clearance. Just some minor mods (a spacer and a couple of holes drilled to fit the T-18), it bolts right up to the same frame holes.
Bob
tufcj
gschuld
JERSEYJOE,
Yep, I've got an extra one of those. It is the 76-79 type. Come on down...
George
JERSEYJOE
got any front locking hubs for a 5 bolt hub ?
