arhame
I ordered a new flexplate from Napa and manged to get the original one off last night.
They look EXACTLY the same. (Except for the fact that the original has the teeth ground down a bit).
There was a washer/plate that was on the flexplate when I removed it (between the bolds and the flexplate). Was this the correct location for the plate, or, perhaps, was this something that was supposed to go between the flexplate and crank?
This is my first go at an AMC V8, so I'm a little inexperienced at this.
I'm at a loss at what to check for next. Anymore ideas?
tufcj
The small plate stays on the bolt side. It keeps the bolts from digging into the flexplate and creating places for stress cracks to form.
The flexplate diameter/tooth count should all be the same from 73 to the late 80s (88?), when Jeep went from the Ford style starter to the Mitsu high torque. Of course they did change depending on the trans used.
Bob
tufcj
Mudrat
:-| Interesting, I have 2 flex plates that came from a 360 -one came with the 727 Auto & and neither look like that one :-| #-o
mwouda
I had the same problems with my '78 304 CJ7. Went through 3 starters, always had to shim way out. Finally got a new flexplate and mean green stater and no more grinding. I also could not notice any difference between old and new flexpates, but replacing worked. Good luck. I know how frustrating that is #-o
jeepsr4ever
If your against a wall let me know! We have access to the correct flexplates. The ATI or ATR or ATF flexplates are cheap chinese knockoffs and dont fit..their flwheels are even worse. Pioneer makes the matched flexplate for the AMC V8.
FuzzFace2
Mudrat wrote:-| Interesting, I have 2 flex plates that came from a 360 -one came with the 727 Auto & and neither look like that one :-| #-o
What was the other trany?
That is a TH400 flex. If you lok at it you can see the 3 spokes that are the weak part of the TH400 flex. That is why some drill the TF flex for use with a TH converter.
Dave ----
arhame
Hello, and thanks for all the replies.
I'm installing everything back in right now. Hopefully I'll let everyone know what the outcome is here within a few hours, or tomorrow morning sometime.
Aubrey
arhame
I apologize for not responding back to this thread to let everyone know the outcome.
I originally had used a pioneer plate, and had issues with it.
Not wanting to take the chance on having to take EVERYTHING back out again, I found a transmission shop that happened to have a new old stock one on the wall, (looked like it had been there for many a year).
I took the plate home, and upon further inspection, it appears as if the original flexplate that was put on the motor after the rebuild, had the ring welded on at a slight angle; therefore, it would go back and forth from being too tight, to a lesser tightness.
Needless to say, the new flexplate works. It's still a little on the loud side, but MANY times better than before.
December became very chaotic with work, so I didn't have much time to continue working on the jeep.
I'm back on track now, trying to finish things up. It's getting close............
I'll keep the stories continued in the jeep forum.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions....
GoCommando
Guys, NEED some help here... stymied..... I got a '73 Commando I race off road which had a 304 with thick cast factory adapter plate to a TH400. The 304 was using to much oil in our last race so we swapped in a 360 from a donor '78 wagoneer (quadratrac). here's the problem..... the 360 flywheel is "dished" in comparison to the 304 which is basically flat. At first glace, we decided it would work, because the flywheel teeth were in the same location as the 304's due to crank thickness differences of the 2 motors; we were right on that. however, due to the dish of the 360 flywheel & crank thinness of the 360 compared to 304, when bolting the same torque converter to it, it pulls the converter too far forward out of the tranny to engage the transmission oil pump, hence no action when pulling the tranny into gear (and no trans oil being pumped at the cooler lines). so... what the hell do we need? a different flywheel? a different converter? The crank thicknesses on the back of the block are considerably different, which the dish of the flywheel makes up for fine in terms of the flywheel teeth. we've though about spacing the converter back with the mounting bolts on the flywheel, but then the center "hub" of the converter won't sit in the center opening of the crank (not sure how critical this is, it doesn't seem like a good idea to us). This is a pretty desperate situation as our next race is in 2 weeks and we've been busy working on other mods for this racecar, unknowing of this problem lurking until last night when we went to go for our first test run. tearing it down tonight, we found this problem and are pretty stuck. FYI. i've found a '71-'73 auto 360 flywheel on one warehouse we're thinking about going with as a shot (hoping the dish is different and/or non-existent) here's the link to that flywheel. we can find no different TH400 converters which sound to foot the bill, the flywheel is at bulkpart
-We don't wish to use the wagoneer transmission -which was an original thought of ours, but found the tailshafts are different and the '78 TH400 won't fit our Dana20 Transfer case and we'd rather watch the race than race a quadratrac t-case.
---NOTE, I'm new to AMC, I think the Wag Tranny is a TH400, I'm a chevy guy at heart, I hear other terms (999, 727), i'd bet my ass it's a th400 though, some aficionado may know better.
------
'73 Jeep commando
AMC 360 | TH400 |Dana 20
Rear coolant system 4 row rad.
Front Shackle Reversal, Spring over Conv. Front & Rear.
Front Axle: Wagoneer front Dana44 with 4.88 IH Scout Trac Loc carrier, Wagoneer disc brakes, IH Scout axle shafts, CJ-7 Spindles/Hubs Drive Plates
Rear Axle: IH Scout Dana44 with 4.88 W/welded spiders
P78 Bias Buckshot mudders
jeepsr4ever
Yes thats right the th400 with the adaptor ring takes a unique flexplate that is not made anymore. You may be able to use one of Advanced Adaptors flexplates as they have a different depth to the plate. You could also swap the mainshaft to a 74-79 th400 with the true AMC bolt pattern.
jeepsr4ever
67-79 used the th400 and 80-91 used the tf727 but the Chrysler tranny needs to have a manual valve body to be made race ready. Like I said before you can swap the main shaft they are the same on the end just different on the bellhousing area and use the common flexplates.
arhame
Ok, this problem has come back and bit me in the arse again.
I thought I was on the right path with this. I finally got the jeep out of the garage for the first time after 4 years 9 months. Well, with me starting the jeep and working some kinks out around the neighborhood (if you've watched the video you know my neighbors hate me), The starter and flexplate are toast. One thing I've noticed though, finally, it seems like the flexplate is warped. Well, the flexplate is supposed to do just that, flex.
So, I'm thinking now, that something might be going on with the torque converter, i.e. when I bolt the flexplate to it, it pulls the flexplate into an awkward position.
I'm going to pull the entire thing back out here in the next few days. I've ordered a remanufacturerd torque converter and another flexplate to see how this works. I've also ordered two new drive gears from PowerMaster for the starter (I want a spare after all this crap).
Anyone else heard of a torque converter causing anything similar to this?
Thanks for any information AND man, it's getting close to being done.
Aubrey
GoCommando
a little follow-up on my ordeal.......
we ended up using exactly what we had, and yes, no flexplate available for our swap. even the one we had ordered from alabama was not actually available, order cancelled. so we got to the mic's and made some adapter parts. here's an FYI on what you might need if you are in our shoes ----'78 wagoneer 360 going in a '73 commando with a TH400 with originally a 304 with factory thick adaper plate.
we used the waggy 360 flywheel with spacers .900" thick on each of the flywheel to torque/converter mounts, we made bolts to fit from 1 3/4" 3/8"x16 bolts to a length of 1 5/8". as a precaution (although we've talked to a few short track guys who say we didn't need it), we made an adapter to carry the nose of the torque converter into the ass of the crank. the rough dimensions on it are this:
female end which goes onto the torque converter: 1.700" I.D., 1/2" deep. stepped down to 1" diameter on the male end with an overall length of 1.5". the male 1" goes .600" up the lenght of the adapter. leaving about .400" to be whatever thickness you desire less than the I.D. of the first wall on the inside of the crank which is greater than 1.700". (apperantly from the factory there is a bit of play between the crank ass and torque nose.
maybe overkill, and maybe a hair walk in it with these specs, but we're racing short distance and we all think it'll work fine. we've done some hard testing on it for about a week and so far so good. buisness as usual.
just wanted to pass this adapter info along to all those out there in a similar boat. -And if you can give Singleton Software Solutions CrunkWerks Division a shout for the conversion adapter info, many thanks.
arhame
Howdy everyone,
Well, after about a billion different things have been going through our heads trying to resolve this matter, I talked to the machineshop that did the motor, and he decided to call the nice people over at bulltear.
Well, I spoke to Mr. Bulltear, and decided to try one of his IMI starters vs. the Powermaster that I had purchased.
The starter arrived today, I clocked it to where it fit between the block and the edelbrock headers, wired everything back up, and tada, MUSIC. It starts perfectly and VERY quiet compared to before.
The powermaster starter came with a 9 tooth pinion whereas the IMI starter came with an 11 tooth.
Oh well, now back to trying to finish this thing.
My exhaust cutouts and hushpower muffler arrived and if I can get this tranfercase stabbed back in, and everything else bolted up, I'm going to try and get the exhaust done tomorrow.
wooo.
Thanks again bulltear.
jeepsr4ever
You are most welcome and I am glad I could help! Good luck and have some great fun with that project. Cant wait to see if you have any hairs left on the top of your head :?: :!:
AMX69PHATTY
May I ask, was it a PowerMaster "XS" #9515 starter for AMC's ?
arhame
It is the Ultra Torque version, not the XS version.
arhame
I had the exhaust installed on the Jeep on Friday. Drove it around town most of the day. Found a few bugs that I need to work out.
On Saturday, I put almost 75 miles on the jeep, getting it on the highway and around town.
On Sunday, the jeep begain making a banging noise under accelleration. After digging around, I found that the torque converter bolts were slapping against the plate in between the block and the edge of the starter.
I went this morning, and purchased thinner flex-plate to torque converter bolts. The issue has gotten worse.
Now, while troubleshooting the initial starter flex-plate issue, I purchased another torque converter from our local NAPA. What struck me as wierd, was that the torque converter bolts were metric.
So, this got me thinking, I wonder if the torque converter is the wrong one. Perphaps when I'm bolting it to the flex-plate, it's being pulled out of the pump housing, and while running, it's out of balance now and slap against the block plate and starter.
Any ideas? I've contacted NAPA, and they are hunting down my old torque converter that I turned in as a core on Friday.
Blah
Aubrey
jeepsr4ever
Aubrey they shouldnt be metric they should be a smaller thread. GM used a smaller thread for the common vehicles that used th400's and a larger thread for AMC. You will need to make sure your bolts are tight on that flexplate. Also depending on the bolt head yes they can rub. You almost there!!
