Engine problem with the 360.

Mudrat

Engine problem with the 360. Now remember this engine has run for the break-in so I KNOW it was OK when I left in Jan. Been gone 6+ months, it hasn't run in that long. So I pop the dizzy plug in the Bulltear priming tool and crank that mother for a couple minutes - no oil on the turning tool :shock: Try it again for a few more seconds - no oil!!! Pull the filter - oil every where ?? Anyway, got oil pressure back (air bound?) when cranking with a drill (80 PSI). But now the engine won't start? It wants to as long as the starter is turning -you can hear the rumble of straight pipes :mrgreen: but when you let go the key, it stops? :-| Dizzy wiring is right, did find some wires were wrong - some how they got switched, 4 of them out of place - and not in a logical swap either?? Odd ... since I broke this thing in over New Years?? Had the man-child out to help me tonight :t: , verified TDC on #1, set the dizzy to match #1 on the cap, checked the wires and firing order, again, and cranked - no luck. Stuck the timing light on it and started cranking - never saw a timing mark, and the engine sounded like it caught, but dies as soon as the starter stops. Several times. Have fuel flow, back fired it through the carb a few times gas all over the cleaner cover - what lead me to the plug wires being wrong, and that fresh, raw fuel smell hanging in the air. Going from an A/C shop @76* to 90* w/80% humidity just to vent fumes sucks Got enough juice to fire the timing light (inductive) Frustrated!! I now have 2 Jeeps down :smile: The YJ gas tank has a leak - waiting parts ... :oops:

jeepsr4ever

Check purple wire from dizzy....check spark...check wiring to coil....check wires....check selenoid.

Mudrat

jeepsr4ever wrote
Check purple wire from dizzy....check spark...check wiring to coil....check wires....check selenoid.

Thanks,
Will do tomorrow . . . in the mean time, I have not been able to find a replacement sender for a 20 Gal Poly tank. 0-88ohms. OEM, OMIX, any body!!

Well actually I did, but the $tealership wants $265 for a basic variable resistor and float!!!! :shock: 🙁:

74on35s

is your dizzy 180* out? TDC on #1 on compression stroke?
the 'starts when the key is turned' sounds like a bad switch or ignition switch, but I just went thru this, and it turned out my resistor wire went bad. Had very similar symptoms as you.
I ended up replacing the wire, straight from the ignition side of the switch - thru a new ballast resistor- then to the coil.

sounds like someone's been in there learning to wrench on your toys...

Mudrat

74on35s wrote
is your dizzy 180* out? TDC on #1 on compression stroke?
the 'starts when the key is turned' sounds like a bad switch or ignition switch, but I just went thru this, and it turned out my resistor wire went bad. Had very similar symptoms as you.
I ended up replacing the wire, straight from the ignition side of the switch - thru a new ballast resistor- then to the coil.

Dizzy has been checked about 4 times - but I'll take another look. I don't have the balast resistor - left it out intentionally, but will be checking both the IGN and Start wires to the start relay.

MC ... purple wire from Dizzy????

73hornut

Starter relay is bad.

74on35s

I'm not familiar with your build so forgive the q's. What ignition system do you have? Stock or some aftermarket type ignition control box? How is it wired for power? If you don't have a resistor wire (or ballast resistor) on a stock type ignition system and coil, that might be your problem. I put a Jacobs coil on mine when it started acting up, wired thru the purple wire on the dizzy. didn't help a bit. Ended up wiring a new wire from the switch (after replacing the switch and the soliniod to no avail) directly to the coil. tested it about 10 miles from the house and it ran great! for about 30 minutes...then it died, and we ended up towing it home... Turned out even some of the aftermarket stuff needs that resistor wire or a ballast resistor :oops: :oops:. I ended junking my pertronics points eliminator and the Jacobs coil. Now its got a new electronic dizzy and a TFI conversioin. just waiting on the control box (or chevy HEI module) to finish it up.

Mudrat

73hornut wrote
Starter relay is bad.

???? Starter kick's in and runs fine ??? Starter Solenoid maybe?? That's what I'm about to swap out with my trail spare (thought I'd check in here first) after I check the wiring from the IGN SW. (it was smoking the other night while trying to start this b/tch. Don't know if it was really the relay or the rubber on the cables - they were pretty danged hot!!

74on35s wrote
I'm not familiar with your build so forgive the q's. Not a problem, thanks for your time

What ignition system do you have? Stock or some aftermarket type ignition control box? How is it wired for power?
If you don't have a resistor wire (or ballast resistor) on a stock type ignition system and coil, that might be your problem.

I put a Jacobs coil on mine when it started acting up, wired thru the purple wire on the dizzy. didn't help a bit. Ended up wiring a new wire from the switch (after replacing the switch and the soliniod to no avail) directly to the coil. tested it about 10 miles from the house and it ran great! for about 30 minutes...then it died, and we ended up towing it home...
Turned out even some of the aftermarket stuff needs that resistor wire or a ballast resistor :oops: :oops:. I ended junking my pertronics points eliminator and the Jacobs coil. Now its got a new electronic dizzy and a TFI conversioin. just waiting on the control box (or chevy HEI module) to finish it up.

360, .030 over, balanced, crank has been cross drilled, turned and polished, Summit 8600 cam, Performer intake with E-Brock carb (w/off road needles/float). Painful harness (no computer) and rebuilt Stock dizzy but TFI coil, new plugs & wires, front end is the Bulltear Timing cover & oil pump :mrgreen: with new cam and dizzy gears (and the wear pattern looks god so far :t: ) Been thinking on the HEI outta MC's store here, but just threw $3500 at the man-childs truck (new tranny and wiring problems - a dozen melted wires hidden in the harness) so the new sparker will have to wait.

Like I mentioned, it ran for break-in then I 'went away' for about 7 months. (sounds a lot like your "30 minutes" :-| ) Now I'm trying to get rolling so I can get the exhaust done.

Tried the Jacobs on the Chebby 2500 and had to take it off when the coil melted :shock: Most of it is in a box occupying space in my shop :oops:

Mudrat

Sh/t Wires all check out, New starter relay made no difference Wants to start but dies when in "Run" Brother Jak and I need to have a long discussion - I'm pissed and he don't care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :?:

donwag

If it will run (start) in the start circuit and die when you return the key to run, you have a short or open in the run circuit. Check all your wiring connected to the run circuit. Since this is a CJ, that should be fairly simple. Even simplier with a new wiring harness. Get out you multi-meter and spend some time. I had the same symptoms on my 82 Chero. Finally traced it to a short in the seat belt buzzer circuit which was only activated in the run circuit. Good luck!

Mudrat

donwag wrote
I had the same symptoms on my 82 Chero. Finally traced it to a short in the seat belt buzzer circuit which was only activated in the run circuit.

Good luck!

Yours is still connected??? :shock:

Thanks,
I was going though everything I could think of, but couldn't find the 'painful' booklet to make sense of it (been a scattered month or so here at the homestead).

The Chiltons and TSM show all the computer crap and a lot of stuff I removed (vac solinoids, computer, etc) so I was looking for the simplified 'Painless' book or any of my notes (lost over the last couple years). Finally down loaded the instructions and will work LOGICALLY rather than frustrationally :oops: 'Course they changed the color codes and have now also NUMBERED the wires???
"Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends
We're so glad you could attend, come inside, come inside
There behind a glass stands a real blade of grass
Be careful as you pass, move along, move along."
Emerson, Lake and Palmer; Brain Salad Surgery [1973]

I'll keep you posted ... seat belt buzzer??? :-|

runnamuck

sounds like a bad ignition switch to me. try "hot wiring" it.

Mudrat

Well, DonWag was right ...

I had run continuity checks on every wire in the start/run circuits, but didn't check fuses :oops: There was a blown 20A for the IGN RUN terminal on the Painless board (way different looking than the stock Jeep fuse block).

Now -the timing issue. I've set this thing at physical TDC, pulled the Dizzy and lined up the rotor with #1 on the cap and #1 plug wire, and it runs - starts right up ... BUT timing light shows ₄₀* (1000 rpm, vac plugged) and the engine hits 230* real quick!! And that's with both 16" electric fans pulling max duty???
If I try and twist it down to less than 20* it stalls.

The history:
New rebuild by the race shop while I was gone last year
Got it installed last summer - beforr I left again :smile:
Got it broke in at ₂₂₀₀ RPM over New Years (couldn‚Äôt set timing then either?)
I left again for 7 months
Got back in Aug, went to start it ‚Äì and couldn‚Äôt, finally got to it this month.

Found 4 rotor wires were out of sequence
Apparently blew the 20A fuse trouble shooting that
Changed oil (it had been sitting for the whole time in a non-climate controlled place)
Pulled, cleaned and re-gaped the plugs
Got it running
Trying to set timing now and no joy??
I have about 6 weeks before I'm gone again (get back Christmas Eve) :shock: :smile: :oops:

Patf10

could the timing chain be off a link or something that give you all that initial advance

ironman_gq

you sure your set for #1 it could be set for a different cylinder? is the dizzy a tooth off or the chain?

Mudrat

Patf10 wrote
could the timing chain be off a link or something that give you all that initial advance

That's what I'm afraid of.

Mudrat

ironman_gq wrote
you sure your set for #1 it could be set for a different cylinder? is the dizzy a tooth off or the chain?

Pulled the valve cover, and double checked TDC and stuck a tie-wrap in to make sure i really was at TDC. Then pulled the Dizzy again to retard by 1 tooth.

I've got it running now - much cooler- but still have 32* initial without vacuum 111!!! Should I set it back another tooth??

Video/audio to follow when I can edit down the 25Meg file.

One thing that still stikes me strange though, I can't get a solid timing light signal :-| Even at a 750 idle, the timing light seems to be getting stray triggers and sometimes just doesn't trigger???? Another symptom???

1980_Cj7

Changing the tooth engagement on the distributor is doing nothing that you couldn't do by just turning the distributor body. The only reason to shift teeth on the gear is if something is keeping you from turning the distributor, like the vacuum advance pot hitting something. I hate to say it, but if I were you, I'd pull the timing cover and check the alignment of the timing gears. We had a very similar problem, which ended up destroying a newly rebuilt engine. Turned out the "engine builder", and I use the term loosely, had put the camshaft key in the oil groove in the timing gear instead of in the keyway. It had the valve timing all screwed up, which caused us to have to set the ignition timing way too far advanced to get it to run. Ended up we got detonation to the point where it destroyed the engine in 300 miles, and we had to have it completey rebuilt again. The second time around we assembled the engine ourselves, and I degreed the cam to make sure everything was right. I had to set the timing 2¬? off straight up in order to match the cam specs.

wdwrlw

Yeah I would also pull the Timing cover. My problem was similar with bad timing adjustments. I used a light and everything else. I could never get the engine to run smooth throughout the rpm range. I have a comp 270h which I believe is fairly similiar to Summit cam, but I always thought it was just the wrong cam for the motor. I decided to purchase a new Timing cover from Bulltear to increase my low oil preassure and when I pulled the cover I noticed the timing set was so lose I could almost lift the chain off the sproket. I guess when I was rebuilding my motor my small workspace made me mix up the old part with the new part. I believe I must have thrown out the brand new timing set and installed the old one. I can't think of any other reason that could have happened. Anyway I am replacing it now and will update you but I think it will solve my problem. Check to make sure your teeth on the sprockets are lined up properly.

Mudrat

Bump . . .
Anybody know where I can get one of these senders??? Stock 1985 YJ, 20 Gal Poly. Only aftermarket I can find is for the FI system with integral fuel pump... This is a for a straight 6, no pump ...

Mudrat wrote
I have not been able to find a replacement sender for a 20 Gal Poly tank. 0-88ohms. OEM, OMIX, nobody!! ($tealership is $265, with out the pump!!)