killahxft_jeep
alright, I've got an 1974 AMC 304 that lost compression, and i figured while I have it out might as well send it to the cleaners, and freshen up the motor..
here's my plan..
block
hot-tank the block
magnaflux the block
bore .030 over
have the crank polished & chamfered
rebuild the bottom end with new pistons (not sure if I want to get dish type or not to up the Comp ratio
RV type cam (edelbrock, or comp cams)
hydraulic lifters
deck the block
heads:
new rocker assemblies
new pushrods
deck the heads
good thourough cleaning
new valve guides & seals
lap the valves
and call the heads good
I know in 74 Compression ratio got dropped to about 8.5:1 just want to up it a bit to gain some low end torque from the RV cam.
just wondering what you guys would recommend for the engine.. it's going into my 74 CJ5 with T18a/D20 combo with D44 rear/D30 front w 3.73 gears and 32" tires.. eventually the jeep will get a lift, and some 34's.. just need the low down grunt with a good 2000-3000 rpm response to handle crusiing at 55-65mph for short periods. My Cj5 is fairly light.. also looking for durability..
I already have an HEI distributor, and edelbrock performer intake, and 600cfm carb. for the motor.
thanks for your input.
1980_Cj7
Do everything you said...but to a 360 you pick up cheap at a junk yard. That will also allow you to keep your Jeep in service while the motor is being built, as machine shops seem to work at glacial speed.
The 360 won't cost any more to do, other than what you pay for a cheap plentiful junkyard engine, will bolt in right in place of the 304, and will give you more power than the 304, and the low end torque you're looking for in the end, even without altering it much from stock. The parts you already have will fit a 360.
Don't get too much compression ratio or it won't run on pump gas. If you think pump gas is expensive these days, just start finding, buying, and lugging around 5 gallon cans of racing fuel.
Good luck with your project!
PS-you might want to edit your post and switch a "t" and an "s" around, ha, ha. Accidentally transposing those two little letters took you from "lost" compression to 'lots" [of] compression, and had me confused for a while.
killahxft_jeep
I too thought about picking up an amc 360.. but most I could find was a 360 for $500... and well.. I'm not exactly rich right now.. and the 304 should have enough gusto to sufficiently move my 3000lb CJ5...
1980_Cj7
Yeah, if you have to pay $500, I agree, but around here, I'm betting you could find one for $150 to $200, and if you weren't in a big hurry, I'll bet you could find one even cheaper.
Blown7
killahxft_jeep wroteI too thought about picking up an amc 360.. but most I could find was a 360 for $500... and well.. I'm not exactly rich right now.. and the 304 should have enough gusto to sufficiently move my 3000lb CJ5...
Try Bennett Hill it's somewhere up there in Maine. Mr Bennette specializs in AMC/Jeep stuff.
Jeff
killahxft_jeep
I've been rebuilding this jeep for nearly 2 years now, and I just want to see it it out and running before I throw more money at it... maybe at a later point I'll look into a 360 for it.. but right now it's not in the cards.. just looking for the issues with the 304 that I can do something about while it's apart.. and there is always the option of puitting an 360 crank into a 304 block and stroking the 304..
dwg86
304 and 360 use the same crank.
AMX69PHATTY
MadDog www.fastengineparts.com in FLA has a 304 Master Engine kit with cast pistons for $505 + ship.
1980_Cj7
killahxft_jeep wroteI've been rebuilding this jeep for nearly 2 years now, and I just want to see it it out and running before I throw more money at it... maybe at a later point I'll look into a 360 for it.. but right now it's not in the cards.. just looking for the issues with the 304 that I can do something about while it's apart.. and there is always the option of puitting an 360 crank into a 304 block and stroking the 304..
Our experience was that we got into a WHOLE lot more money on the rebuild than we ever could have imagined, and that's disregarding the fact that we had to do it twice due to the first machine shop's screwup. I'd hate to see you have to go thru that expense on the 304, only to go thru it again later on a 360, if you're thinking about a 360 someday.
killahxft_jeep
I realize it's going to be about $1400 or so into the motor before all is said and done. I have more than that into the T18 swap.. I just want the 304 built up.. it'll be more than enough to spin my tiny 32's for a few years.. and someday downt he road when I have more money, and want more juice in the tiny CJ5.. I'll get a hold of a 360 and go to town with it.. I just want to get this 304 to put out reliable power, and a bit of gain over stock.. I only want to raise hte CR to around 9:1 nothing significant.. even 9.2:1 should be good for 87 octane... and yeah i realized that afterwards.. I was thinking of the 401 crank.. at 3.66" stroke opposed tot he 304 & 360's 3.44 stroke. but I doubt the 401 crank will just drop into a 304 block. not really worried about it at this point.
I will have had the jeep in "not running" condition a full 2 years this october. just want it done.. taking the block, heads & re-usable parts to the machine shop on monday.. hopefully it'll have a good turn-around, and I'll have them set me up with a good engine package.. they quoted me around $450 for a master rebuild kit. and the machining will run around $400-500 then I just need a water pump, and timing cover/housing.. that's another $290 or so.. and the RV cam is around $120..
jeepmonster
Probably a good idea to recondition the rods with ARP bolts and the head bolts too. Double roller timing chain with a torrington bearing with free up some power too and less prone to stretching.
tufcj
You could look around for a set of 1970-early 71 304 heads, casting # 3199517. Like the 3196291 heads for the 360-401, they have a smaller combustion chamber, and will bump you close to 9:1 with just the head change. I know they're out there, and they don't cost a whole lot, since few people use the smaller valve heads.
Bob
tufcj
1980_Cj7
killahxft_jeep wroteI realize it's going to be about $1400 or so into the motor before all is said and done. I have more than that into the T18 swap.. I just want the 304 built up.. it'll be more than enough to spin my tiny 32's for a few years.. and someday downt he road when I have more money, and want more juice in the tiny CJ5.. I'll get a hold of a 360 and go to town with it.. I just want to get this 304 to put out reliable power, and a bit of gain over stock.. I only want to raise hte CR to around 9:1 nothing significant.. even 9.2:1 should be good for 87 octane... and yeah i realized that afterwards.. I was thinking of the 401 crank.. at 3.66" stroke opposed tot he 304 & 360's 3.44 stroke. but I doubt the 401 crank will just drop into a 304 block. not really worried about it at this point.
I will have had the jeep in "not running" condition a full 2 years this october. just want it done.. taking the block, heads & re-usable parts to the machine shop on monday.. hopefully it'll have a good turn-around, and I'll have them set me up with a good engine package.. they quoted me around $450 for a master rebuild kit. and the machining will run around $400-500 then I just need a water pump, and timing cover/housing.. that's another $290 or so.. and the RV cam is around $120..
Hope you are right/lucky, but, speaking from very recent experience, I think you'll end up with way more money in the engine than that. Both rebuilds, our machining costs alone, no parts, was over $2,100.
killahxft_jeep
well I'm saving a LOT by doing the teardown, and rebuild mostly myself. not a lot too it.. just some meticulous measuring, and remeasuring. I have all the tools I'll need. aside fron a ring compressor, but that's an inexpensive tool. I talked to the machine shop.. and it's
$48 hot tank
$56 magnaflux
$160 for bore and hone to .030"
$110 to grind/polish/chamfer the crank
$450 master rebuild kit
the heads I forgot to ask about installing new valve seals, and brass guides.. as well as decking the block/heads but that I would'nt imagine would be much more than $200
but that's not bad at all for the entire bottom end..
so far I'm looking at $824 without decking the heads or valve seals/guides. then add in the cam/lifter package.. that's another $140 then add in the inexpensive parts.. pushrods, top end parts. that's probably another $160-200 depending on what I go with.
82Waggy
And then there is:
Rod Sizing w/ new rod bolts
Balance Rotating Assembly
Block Freeze Plugs
Cam Bearings
Head Cleaning and Magnaflux
Valve Springs, Locks, Retainers
Hardened Exhaust Seats
Valve Job
Head Mill Surface
Valve Seals
Head Freeze Plugs
New Rockers
1980_Cj7
killahxft_jeep wrotewell I'm saving a LOT by doing the teardown, and rebuild mostly myself. not a lot too it.. just some meticulous measuring, and remeasuring. I have all the tools I'll need. aside fron a ring compressor, but that's an inexpensive tool. I talked to the machine shop.. and it's
$48 hot tank
$56 magnaflux
$160 for bore and hone to .030"
$110 to grind/polish/chamfer the crank
$450 master rebuild kit
the heads I forgot to ask about installing new valve seals, and brass guides.. as well as decking the block/heads but that I would'nt imagine would be much more than $200
but that's not bad at all for the entire bottom end..
so far I'm looking at $824 without decking the heads or valve seals/guides. then add in the cam/lifter package.. that's another $140 then add in the inexpensive parts.. pushrods, top end parts. that's probably another $160-200 depending on what I go with.
We did too. This last rebuild, we took the block into the shop with the heads off. We had them remove the pistons, crank, cam, and bearings, only because we wanted them to be looking for what went wrong with the first rebuild that lasted only 300 miles. They found it too. The first shop had installed the timing gear on the cam with the key in the oil groove instead of the keyway.
The shop:
bored and honed
reconditioned and bushed the rods for Chevy size pins (the rods were already fitted with ARP bolts, and we provided the bushings)
turned and polished the crank
installed the cam bearings
balanced the engine
did a valve job
cleaned block and heads and installed new freeze plugs
The only parts they supplied were the main, rod, cam bearings, and freeze plugs. We provided all the other parts, and did all the reassembly ourselves. The bill still came to over $2100. Maybe machine shop work is cheaper up your way, but that's the second shop we used, and both were about the same price-wise.
AMX69PHATTY
For me, the best way to get it done right, is not to add up the costs :?:
82Waggy
AMX69PHATTY wroteFor me, the best way to get it done right, is not to add up the costs :?:
Got that right.
Wonder what kind of pistons and stuff you get in a $450.00 master rebuild kit? :-|
Not trying to put anybody off but I would seriously think about what you are rebuilding this with, and what for.
For reference, I've got about $2200 in bottom end (short block) machine work and rotating assy parts not including timing gear or cam, and over $500 in basic head work with hardened exh seats, valve job, and bronze guides, not including any other parts. Super secret stuff cost a lot more.
1980_Cj7
My son was at Harry's U-Pull-It, in Hazelton, PA, this afternoon. He got some nice hood louvers off a Chevy Lumina Z-34, complete with screens and drip pans for $1.
He said this is engine week where they sell any engine for $65. They have tranny, engine, axle, etc., weeks regularly every month, like engine week is say the third week every month. I was telling him about this post and asked if he saw any 360's. He said yes, there were several Wagoneers there. Only problem is with the price of gas these days, till you'd drive down from Maine and back, who knows how much you'd spend in fuel.
Harry's has a web page at http://www.wegotused.com/aboutus.htm. It's one of the only junk yards any more that let's you go in and walk around and look thru and pick stuff, and it's all very well organized by trucks, cars, and manufacturer, and it's huge. Every thing is up on stands (welded up old wheels) so you can get underneath easily and safely.
killahxft_jeep
all I know is I'm taking care of the bottom end first.. the top end has had work done to it.. I can tell by the differen rocker bridges that are on the heads. so I am simply going to pull the heads apart & have the heads decked, and lap the valves, and clean it again, and re-assemble it with new valve seals & guides.. no new parts in the head other than new rocker assemblies, and pushrods.
if I have to take some extra time for the $$ to come in, I'll take the time and do it right.. this is a budget rebuild. motor was in working order when i pulled it.. it just lost compression.. all the other parts are in great shape other than the water pump housing.
