head gaskets

1tuffcj

i need help, and advise, after starting my engine, after a rebuild found, that i had a crack in one of my heads. so i baught a set edlebrock heads, put them on and tourqed to 85 ft lb with molly lube as arp suggest, they both leaked. so i baught another set of head gaskets, and called edlebrock and the tech guy suggested to use 30 wt oil and tourqe to 110 ft lb. you guessed it they leaked again but barely, not dripping or anything but you could see shinny water between the head and the block. now arp suggest if you use 30 wt, to tourqe them to 130 ft lb. so i'm gonna buy another set of head gaskets (fel pro blue tourqe). question when i dipped the bolts in oil i put them in bowl, so when i put them in the holes i think that maybe oil might of gotten in between the head and the block and soaked the gasket. i don't know, i'm getting more and more frustrated this will be the third time. note when i did start it it sounded pretty good had 25psi at idle, but each time iv'e only run it for about 1 to 2 minutes. thanks in advance. mikey

dwg86

I if you use the fel-pro head gaskets,if I am not mistaken, you are suppossed to use a spray tack on the one side of the head gasket (the metal side of the gasket). I would use ROL head gaskets instead of Fel-Pro.

jeepsr4ever

If you last set is on just retorque them

1tuffcj

would retourqing just 20 ft lb,do it you think. just asking cause i already took off the intake and the valley pan. and can i re use the valve cover gasket over (it's rubber) and i heard about that permatex spay for copper and metal gaskets. thanks mikey

fifesjeep

I used The ROL high temp and slightly thinner gaskets and had no problems.... I only used a little oil on the threads... a couple drops... some I partially dipped the threads and flung the excess off... :idea:

1tuffcj

i got some copper spray for gaskets by permatex, and i'm gonna tourqe them to 130 ft lb and not put so much oil on the bolts. their arn't any water jackets on the 401 are there. thanks mikey

Penguin

Never put a lot of oil on a head bolt. To much can cause a hydrolic pressure when the bolt reaches the bottom, and give a false reading on your torque.

fifesjeep

penguin wrote
Never put a lot of oil on a head bolt. To much can cause a hydrolic pressure when the bolt reaches the bottom, and give a false reading on your torque.

That's why I wrote...

fifesjeep wrote
I only used a little oil on the threads... a couple drops... some I partially dipped the threads and flung the excess off... :idea:

I know there is a torque chart per/fluid/lubricant used... I have a chart back home in Va... It's out dated due to the new lubricants/synthetics etc.. it's still a decent chart...

AMX69PHATTY

I used the moly grease that came with the ARP head bolts on the threads and washers, copper spray coated the steel side of the Fel-Pro's, and torqued'em to 65 foot pounds per the instruction sheet, but haven't started up yet. They are the 7/16 bolts in a '69, not the 1/2 inchers.

1tuffcj

thanks you guys all good adsvise, i did try the molly lube, but they can't send molly on the plane so i used a off brand :oops: .i'm gonna go with a couple drop of 30 wt and copper sray on the gasket, metal side, and torqe them to 130 ft lb as ARP suggest. i tried the oil and 110 ft lb and it leaked, maybe i was getting false reading like penguin said. is this the same penguin from 4wd.com forum. if anyone is still reading this what brand and weight of oil should i use for hawaii weather and oil filter. and what are you guys with hei dizzy running your timming at. hey i put 10-40 oil for the cam break in, did i mess up, and how long should i run the motor at break in and what rpm, i have a comp cam. thanks in advance mikey.

fifesjeep

1tuffcj wrote
thanks you guys all good adsvise, i did try the molly lube, but they can't send molly on the plane so i used a off brand :oops: .i'm gonna go with a couple drop of 30 wt and copper sray on the gasket, metal side, and torqe them to 130 ft lb as ARP suggest. i tried the oil and 110 ft lb and it leaked, maybe i was getting false reading like penguin said. is this the same penguin from 4wd.com forum. if anyone is still reading this what brand and weight of oil should i use for hawaii weather and oil filter. and what are you guys with hei dizzy running your timming at. hey i put 10-40 oil for the cam break in, did i mess up, and how long should i run the motor at break in and what rpm, i have a comp cam. thanks in advance mikey.

In Hawaii the temp is warm/hot/humid etc... You can run regular weight oil... Personally In summer I run a heavier weight oil... (20w50 racing oil)... But that also depends on your motor.. Not all are created equal etc. 10w40 should do you well for daily driving in Hawaii... For cam break-in always use a thick weight oil... You can buy straight weight oil 30w, 40w or 50w... (Just for break in purposes)... it's cheap and provides great protection preventing wear etc... (Plus after the break-in you have to change the oil anyway... then another 1000 miles of stop and go you should change it again)... others might disagree but, then again that's my method/way. Never use synthetic oils for cam break-ins... :shock: some might argue with this as-well but... :roll: to one his/her own. I broke my motor in at 2500 rpms for 30 minutes... towards then end of the break-in period I would change the rpms fluctuating them up and down pause at a certain rpm and then raise it... pause etc... Keeping the rpms above 1500 and no higher than 3000.... but then again CompCams should have a specific guideline/procedure for that cam... and a little word to the wise.. FOLLOW THEIR GUIDE SHEET/PROCEDURES TO THE "T"... this way if a lobe is to wear prematurely you can send it back and they'll give you a new cam in it's place after they do their "Checks"... their procedure sheets are easy to follow etc...
As soon as the motor fires set the curb idle screw to a set rpm and let it run... monitor the oil pressure/water etc... Listen for any "weird" or metallic noises... if you hear something weird kill it! and cross your finger 8)

AMX69PHATTY

After the "stationary" break-in, should one do a "driven" break- in ? Where you accelerate moderately up to about 60mph and coast down to like 30 mph a few, 4 or 5, times ? This creates high vacuum, and helps seat the rings I think :-|

fifesjeep

AMX69PHATTY wrote
After the "stationary" break-in, should one do a "driven" break- in ?
Where you accelerate moderately up to about 60mph and coast down to like 30 mph a few, 4 or 5, times ?

This creates high vacuum, and helps seat the rings I think :-|

I completely agree with that as-well... I live in the "City" so after the innitial break-in/oil change etc I'll drive around with stop and go etc.. I'll Get on it but... not too hard... I normally keep it in 2nd sometimes 3rd... (1st is geared way too low 4th is the opposite). But also, towards the end of the innitial break-in I'll move the rpms up and down... (for the reason you mentioned). But as far as the rings seating they should be seated after the break-in.... Especially if you use the Cast Iron Rings... The Chromoly rings should also be seated for the most part but, with the high nickle content in the AMC blocks the rings might need a little more time in the break-in process... which with doing what you mentioned should seat the rings.... :-|

1970amx

With aluminum heads I feel that the best head gasket for you to use is the ROL HT head gaskets. Are you sure that your block and heads are not warped ? It is pretty unusual to blow head gaskets unless you have a lot of compression or your block or heads are not flat.

1tuffcj

the heads are brand new, i'm not sure about the block. i think i put to much oil on the bolts, i called ARP, and the tech and told him what i did and he thinks i ruined the head gasket when oil seeped threw the heads and the block and also probbly never got the right torqe do to, to much oil and crerated vapor lock. i also called comp cam and that tech guy said to use 15- w40 for the break in. then change it with either 10-w40 or 20-w50 and to subtract 1 quart with EOS oil, with every oil change.

Penguin

1tuffcj, yes it is. As mentioned don't use synthetic oil for the break in. It does too good of a job protecting your engine. You need some heat and wear to break in the rings and such.

1tuffcj

bulltear is awsome!!!!! :lo1l: i put it back together for the third time, and so far success. i let it run long enough to set the timeing 10 degrees btdc idle at 800 rpm, oil pressure is 65 to 70, AWSOME :!: matt told me to take appart my oil filter adapter and check the plunger and the spring, did that. when i took the bolt off the spring came out but not the plunger, so i got a magnet, took it out and scotch brited it. then i took my oil pressure sending unit apart, and found a piece of what looked like teflon forced into the small hole. last time i started it, it was only 25 psi. i would never thaught to check those two thing, thanks matt. it's good to know the motor was strong even if the gauge only said 25 psi, it's great to see it, i'm like a school girl right now, and so far no leaks, thanks for all the advise about the copper spay and only to use a couple drops of oil. i'm gonna let it cool and re torqe the heads, then break in the cam, i'll keep you posted. thanks mikey :sa:

fifesjeep

65-70psi Is too high at idle... personally I like to see it around 35-45psi at idle... The pressure relief/bypass valve should open at or around 60-65psi... in-order to relieve some pressure so that you don't blow the seal or even the can... (It'll take more to blow the can). Keep watching the oil pressure gauge... If your seal blows out... by the time you realize that your oil pressure has dropped you could chew the bearings etc... #-o

1tuffcj

it was more on the 65 side. QUESTION how do you adjust rocker roller, with the intake on

82Waggy

By removing the valve covers.