258 won't start-Ignition issues???

ironman_gq

doesn't necessarily clean the engine but it sure keeps the cam happy. Hope the new wires and plugs help with the problem.

rollen dean montoya

there are additives that help the " diesel engines" last longer. they are not in regular oil. i think it was blown7 that suggested using rotella-t. so far both the lincoln and suburban like the oil . my fuel economy went up since i started using this oil. getting 26mpg hiway in the lincoln and 14 out of the suburban with a hardin marine 454 boat engine.

76-cj7

By the looks of some of your pictures i can see some smog related items which would mean a newer style engine which also has a fuel return line on it. Now if in fact the fuel pump is suckin the gas down it could just be sending it right back twords your gas tank if the carbs floats are....no adjusted right....or stuck in a closed position. I don't know if this will 100% fix the problem but im just throwing the idea out. I had an 84 and when the pick-up coil went i had no spark at all. Not even a spark every now and then. I doubt it would be timing issues unless the previous owner pulled the dist. to put in the somewhat new looking pick-up coil in.......double check your timing to be on the safe side....make sure your absolutly getting gas inside the carb and it does spray fuel while just sitting and not cranking by twistin the throttle. Now i dont know if yours has a computer but i've seen them crap out on some instances and that stupid ass ICM on the fenderwell is sometimes the culprit. Let us know what all you've done so far.
DuNgA!

bowtieman55

alright...new ignition module (old one tested bad), new dist. cap, rotor button, and today, new spark plugs and plug wires. Still no start :(: I'm not sure what to do. The engine cranks fast like it should and doesn't kick back like it ?would? if the timing was off. As mentioned earlier, I know the fuel pump is pumping, but looking into the carb, I do not see fuel spray.

bowtieman55

76-cj7 wrote
Now if in fact the fuel pump is suckin the gas down it could just be sending it right back twords your gas tank if the carbs floats are....no adjusted right....or stuck in a closed position....make sure your absolutly getting gas inside the carb and it does spray fuel while just sitting and not cranking by twistin the throttle. Now i dont know if yours has a computer but i've seen them crap out on some instances and that stupid ass ICM on the fenderwell is sometimes the culprit. Let us know what all you've done so far.
DuNgA!

I KNOW the fuel is getting to the carb. I disconnected the hard line going into the carb and checked. :idea:

bowtieman55

ok...pulled the #2 plug, re-attached the plug wire, and rested them on the cylinder head. We've DEFINITELY have fire going to/coming out of the plugs

bowtieman55

76-cj7 wrote
By the looks of some of your pictures i can see some smog related items which would mean a newer style engine which also has a fuel return line on it. Now if in fact the fuel pump is suckin the gas down it could just be sending it right back twords your gas tank if the carbs floats are....no adjusted right....or stuck in a closed position...make sure your absolutly getting gas inside the carb and it does spray fuel while just sitting and not cranking by twistin the throttle. Now i dont know if yours has a computer but i've seen them crap out on some instances and that stupid ass ICM on the fenderwell is sometimes the culprit. Let us know what all you've done so far.
DuNgA!

I think you're on to something...the base of the carb is wet with gas. looks like I'll be pulling the carb tommorow for a rebuild. The Carter will have to do, for now.

76-cj7

What i was getting at was the float is adjusted where the fuel line screws into the carb.....that little brass fitting adjusts the floats and it might be stuck closed and thus not letting any gas in.....but you deff need to check the timing on it and remember TDC is a COMPRESSION stroke so you'll need to pull #1 plug and make sure you can feel the rush of air out the cylinder. Try a diff carb and from experience do not buy a rmfg carb from shit zone, advanced crap, and napa. They will crap out due to the poor rebuild job they do and i work at auto zone and yes NAPA does have most of the same parts and so does advance with most of the same part numbers......best bet is that if it is a carb issue is too spend the few hundred bucks for a good weber or find a used one and rebuild it.......theres nuttin to em...easy job Let us know more as you go.......DuNgA

hugh

If it has a carter 2 barrel carb, get a can of compressed air like the the stuff they use to clean computer keyboards and take your air cleaner off. There are 2 brass nozzles that spray the gas into the carb and the holes are so small they often plug up. Use the compressed air to blow out the hole in the center and then check it by opening the throttle by hand without the engine running. You should see a fine mist of gas spraying into the carb. If you do try to start it again. The nozzles can be drilled out but I forget the drill size.

ironman_gq

drill size is .032 inches if I remember properly.

bowtieman55

ok...so we just went out there and put it at TDC on #1 (as best I could tell, anyway). The rotor button was facing #1 on the dist. cap, but the timing mark on the crank pulley wasn't on 0*. So I hand cranked the engine over (3/4" socket on a ratchet) so that the timing mark was on or extremely close to 0*. That moved the rotor button 180* from where it was facing. It is now facing the #6 plug wire terminal on the cap (between cylinders 3 & 4). #-o

ironman_gq

you sure that was on a compression stroke for #1. sounds like you were on TDC on an intake or exhaust stroke.

bowtieman55

and you were correct! :t:

ok...so according to Hayne's, I rotated the crank (by hand) 360. The rotor button is now facing the #1 terminal on the dist. cap, but the timing mark is at 4 or 6* on the timing tab.
Rotor Button is facing #1 terminal at TDC

Timing Marks at or around 6-8 at TDC

ol' school power

I think you're on to something...the base of the carb is wet with gas. looks like I'll be pulling the carb tommorow for a rebuild. The Carter will have to do, for now.

You can easily get that just by pumping the fuel without the engine running. It'll run off the throttle blade and out the side of the shaft. Doesn't mean it needs a rebuild.

Goose

and as to your timing marks.. that is about correct.. 6 to 8 degrees BTDC (advanced) ..

Mudrat

Bowtie - unless your really into tweaking, don't do the Webber. Seems like there are those that love'm and then there's those who can't seem to get it dialed in to work worth a shit. I've also had two different shops try and tweak it too! So far I'm 0 for 3 on getting the 38DGES to work right on my daughters 4.2L :oops: :smile:

bowtieman55

Mudrat wrote
Bowtie - unless your really into tweaking, don't do the Webber. Seems like there are those that love'm and then there's those who can't seem to get it dialed in to work worth a shit.

I've also had two different shops try and tweak it too!

So far I'm 0 for 3 on getting the 38DGES to work right on my daughters 4.2L :oops: :smile:

yep...I've got a 2100 on the way, via the eBay :notworthy:

My dad talked to a couple of guys at his work today. They seem to think the problem lies within the carb. They are thinking that the jets in the BBD could not be picking up the fuel. As mentioned WAY EARLIER, I've poured gas down the throat of the carb AND I've tried starting fluid, with no progress. 111!!!

Mudrat

bowtieman55 wrote
My dad talked to a couple of guys at his work today. They seem to think the problem lies within the carb. They are thinking that the jets in the BBD could not be picking up the fuel. As mentioned WAY EARLIER, I've poured gas down the throat of the carb AND I've tried starting fluid, with no progress. 111!!!

You MANUALLY injected fuel and sprayed CH3NO2 (nitro methane) and it STILL didn't start :shock:

Sounds like more than a carb issue :-| :idea:

bowtieman55

that's EXACTLY what I say/think. It would have at least sputtered or something by bypassing the carb completely. Mudrat, look at my previous post from last night where I show the location of the rotor button compared to the timing mark. SHOULD the engine catch with it like it sits?

Mudrat

It depends, not there to see it, but if you are at TDC and have 'about 6*' dialed in, kick it up a bit ...

BUT, you have done all of the above suggestions ... right? #-o
Cap, Rotor, wires ... got good spark at the (new?) plugs (properly gapped :idea: )
Do you have the TFI upgrade? (Just a question)
Verified the splitter fuel filter is doing it's job ... fuel to the carb, overpressure back down the return line ...
Ensured you ARE on the compression stroke
Set the engine at TDC (0* on the compression stroke indicated on the crank!)
Twist the dizzy to about 10* -12* BTDC (you can use a compass or a degree wheel to get closer than a 'guestimate')

And fire that mother up!!

This process worked for a brand new rebuilt 258 (bored, balanced, ported, polished, some Clifford "stuff", & Webber38) and my 360 (bored, balanced, cross drilled then ground & polished crank, Summit cam, various Edelbrock goodies on top, stock dizzy and headers)

If that doesn't work, you have another problem, low or no compression in the cylinders (strange it would be all of them, but ... you just got this thing in a non-running condition. :-|) Have you pulled the pan and looked at the bottom end? Drained the oil and looked for "chunks" :shock: )

Really bad leaking valves?

Timing chain pop a sprocket? Always a possibilty; even on a 6-banger!!!

What's the 'advertised' milage on this beast?

If that doesn't work, tear it down to parade rest and build it like you want to!!

This is what your looking at over at Jeep 4X4 Center And, NO the numbers do not match the items - don't blame me, send complaints to the Jeep 4X4 Center :mrgreen:

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