Newb Question- WHAT DO I NEED??

Bam Bam

Sorry guys. Just way to overwhelmed with all this great info but.... Just picked up a 360, my 304 was chewin up distributor gears. I want to rebuild the 360 and I want it to work well. I looked the E-store and I am SOOO CONFUSED What the hell do I need to make this thing rock solid? I do want to put a in a cam that will friendly for wheeling and won't let me down. Please let me know what I need.

Goose

Well welcome to the site.. Now before you get even more confusing info.. Tell us what you are putting the 360 in and what kind of wheeling/driving you do.. For instance is this your daily driver? and what kind of mods have you done to it.. (before you end up with a recipe for a nitro sucking fire breathing full race aluminum 9000 hp 14000 rpm motor..for your 3a..to idle over trails with :roll: ) (Sorry I'm kinda the resident wise guy) well one of em anyway. :?

Bam Bam

Thats ok, the wise guys usually know what they are talking about :wink: Ok so I am running a 78 CJ7, AX-15, D300 for axles at this point I am running wide track 30 & Corp 20 (moser shafts) Locked with 4:56 gears on 35s Planning on going full width 60 front and 14 bolt rear on 38s with 5:13s This is not a daily driver, but not yet a trailer queen. I am not looking for a pile of horsepower that will twist a shaft. Just something that will run nicely in most situations with more torque in the lower end.

Mudrat

Bam Bam wrote
That‚Äôs ok, the wise guys usually know what they are talking about :wink:

Leaves me out then :wink: I dropped a 360 into an 85 CJ, T-5, Dana 300, and Dana 44's front and rear with lockers.

I doubt the AX15 will hold up if you "Goose" the heck out of it ( Goose ). I know the T-5 won't, but I'll be "gentle" until I can find a 727 or equivilant to drop in behind it.

I haven't been home enough to get it finished, but there are some pic's in the readers ride section. I didn't go full blown, but had it bored +.30, cross-drilled and polished the crank after opening the oil ways, dropped a Summit 8600 cam, E-brock performer intake, and when I get it back from MC I have the E-brock 1406 carb to put back on. Desktop dyno has it around 400 HP.

'Rat

Bam Bam

i don't know man, I already cooked my T-5 behind my 304 I have been told the T-5 rates weaker than a Peugeot tranny Sounds like a nice set-up tho

Mudrat

Yeah, I don't think it will last long either - but it's new :t:

Here are few shots of "Pat's Projects" :-|

jeepsr4ever

I would start with a mild RV camshaft to get things rolling. How many miles are on the motor right now?

Bam Bam

unfortunately the dash was out of the Waggy when I found it, and then it was sent to the crusher as soon as I pulled the engine, so I guess I will have to try to find out from the wreckers. But I really doubt I will have any luck.

Goose

Goo :? sed again...

Holeshot

Here we go again!!! Mild "RV" camshaft???? That is what a stock cam was/is. The AMC head design will rev to 6500 & supply over 450HP when fresh & without any significant mods!!! 8500RPM & over 600HP when fully prepped. If you put little intakes, carbs, cams, exhaust, etc, on it, that's what kind of power you will get out of it. I believe in COMPLIMENTING the engine design, not detracting from it. The 360 will easily go 450 HP & burst to 7500 RPM with common hot rodding mods. 6500 RPM is safer for the cast rods but modifying aftermarket forged SBC rods to use with the 360 is common & the 390/401 forged crank can also be used. It just depends on what powerband you want, higher HP is at the higher end of the RPM scale.

Goose

Umm ok I'll bite, What exactly is wrong with the stock cam for wheeling?.. he wants to wheel it ..which doesnt work well with it lumpty lumping all over the place.. and where in hell would you use 7500 rpm in a trail rig? if the powerband doesnt "hit" until 2500 rpm then what good is it on the trail? you need power on the bottom 1000 rpm to 5500 it's easy enough to break ujoints, axles etc with out compounding the problem with having to rev the snot out of it and "Launch" over every obstacle. unless you want to run a stout automatic and high stall converter that kind of motor is useless off road. I think the point you are missing here is there are two numbers.. torque and HP torque is what is wanted in a trail rig. and you dont get that with long duration big overlap cams. Seriously, the tool for the job, you dont drive nails with a screwdriver And finally it really isnt a sin to not build every engine to the utmost limits of durability and sanity..I will bet that for the most part with proper gearing and all other things being equal a 258 six would go places that a 500 horse lumpty lump couldnt (in the same vehicle). Sorry for the rant and it's not personal..

Bam Bam

no man, Goose, I appreciate it. I am trying to learn here. I don't know much about engines, and i am trying to fix that. So just to confirm, I would like the engine to idle low, but I also want low end torque. This is a trail rig and I really don't want to "launch" over anything if I can avoid it. Thats how I bend axles.

Holeshot

I knew that was coming!!!

Go ahead & de-tune it, use little bitty cam, intake, carb, exhaust, etc.

Hell, you could probably figure a way to use 1969 heads for even less power!!!!

You could then paint your front bumper yellow so everybody will know to put their rig in gear & get going again when they see that you have caught up.

Or, a 500+ ft/lb, 500+ HP 401 could be built that delivers over 400 ft/lbs at 2500 & over 500 ft/lbs from 3000 to 4500, redlining at 6500 or less. THAT is for ME!!! (& those are easy numbers from a mild build.

MORE IS MORE!!!

Some trails are WFO & 70MPH+++, some are a-put-a-put-a-put

Over and out (of this thread).

Mudrat

Bring your butt back here Holeshot. 8) You're not getting out of here that easy :? What cam would you suggest for the situation? Since I'm about int he same boat - ocassional DD and weekend/hunting partner :wink: Yes, we know HP comes from the upper bands, but bringing 4000-6000 Engine RPM down to a usable torque at rational wheel speeds for crawling would take several gear boxes to reduce it. My contraption only has about 50::1 right now. I've built my 360 with the Summit 8600 (which may be a mistake), performer, Holly 4BBl, .030 over, .010/,010 ground, cross drilled and polished, peend stock rods, balanced, and oil modded. Desktop Dyno has me right around 400 HP @5600 but the torque curve peaks between 3600 and 4000. I haven't had it running yet - still in the rebuild cycle - so what should I have done differently to pick the HP and torque up?

Goose

Naahh Bam Bam you just happened to get caught in the eternal struggle me and holseshot seem to be in.. I am a low RPM torque fan and he is a high rpm horsepower fan..Although my Slow ass yellow bumpered 5800# J-10 on 33's will still run a 14 second vettes ass into the ground. (Nobody waits for me holeshot.. but when they get stuck It's me the "OLD GUY" that gets em out.) and usually they get in trouble running WFO 70 mph.. thats not a trail if you can do that.. most of us call that a highway. :wink: So enough of that.. For a usuable motor at a reasonable price build it for low rpm grunt leave the bottom end STOCK (upgrade the oil system) and stay reasonable with the cam and carb..the performer is very little more than a stock cam (in this holeshot is right) but the stock 360 cam doesnt perform that badly, power on at about 800 rpm to 5000the torque curve is kinda flat and even. I use the Edelbrock torker manifold and a good ignition system (Mallory for me) along with a decent set of headers and exhaust system. besides I can brag and tell everyone it makes 500 hp cause nobody brings thier pocket dyno out in the woods anyway.

Bam Bam

Ya I can understand the little fights, I spend way too much time on jeepkings.ca and we bicker way too much in the winter since everyone is bored. I do understand what Holeshot is saying, but keep in mind, even with my little 304 I had lots of torque, and I broke stuff if I goosed it. I would like to add some horsepower, but I don't want to pumping out enough to take a vette in the quarter mile! For engine mods (i guess you could call it that) I have (from the 304) an Edlebrock Alum Intake (not sure which one) Holley 4 Barrel 650, and Dynomax (I know they are shit headers, but thats all I have) with Purple Horney Side pipes. So no mufflers or cats on this sucker. So I hope this helps the cam issue. What cam do I need? And this oiling thing.... What do I need to do? Other then some oil pump thing and such. Sorry kinda dumb here. 111!!!

Mudrat

Bam Bam
Check the AMC Oiling Thread here ... http://www.bulltear.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=25 and if you thought you wanted info, prepare for saturation :? :shock:

For the cam question, that's open to lots of interpretation and MIS-interpretation. There is no ‚Äúone answer‚Äù. John started a Cam Thread here .. http://www.bulltear.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4878&highlight=cam that may provide some help in sorting out the sordid world of bump-sticks. Again, you‚Äôll find it‚Äôs a matter of deciding on what you want for performance, what you‚Äôre willing to spend, and which manufacturer do you trust. Some board members have had good luck with some brands and others have not with the same name. I‚Äôve pretty much determined it‚Äôs a crap shoot. But the one MAJOR thing to do when you get your new stick is carefully inspect it and make sure the flashing is gone from the hole that is supposed to be there for the 304 and up motors.

'Rat