COLLAPSED PISTON

1980_Cj7

Holeshot wrote
You don't want the guy who screwed it up to get his hands on it again, do ya???

I'd say let the machine shop continue the teardown & give you a written estimate of what it will cost you to get it back to where it was supposed to be in the first place. Then give the butcher a copy. If he refuses to pay for it, sue him. It's the only way to get things put right again.

Good luck!!!!

NO WAY he's touching our engine again! We just wanted to take it and show him proof of the screw up before it's taken apart any further...and tell him we want our money back!

1980_Cj7

What else gets oiled via that groove thru the timing and distributor gears besides the timing chain and the distributor gears, anything? And to think, before I took the parts to the machine shop, I checked everything, and even opened up the divet on the back of the timing gear because it wasn't lining up with the hole in the camshaft. (Fuzz warned us to check that.) A lot of good that did.

1980_Cj7

Just got back from picking up the engine from the new machine shop and taking it back to the "butcher shop". We showed the shop foreman the problem, and he agreed that they definitely screwed up. He was getting ready to unload the engine when we said no, we're having it done elsewhere this time. We gave him the choice of refunding our money, or picking up the tab from the new machine shop to get the engine back to where it should be. He preferred the later, and didn't give us any argument, but said he had to talk to the owner. He took some pictures, and we brought the engine back with us. Fortunately, the owner is the one who assembled our engine, so I don't see how he can argue, but...stay tuned, cross your fingers, and even send a little prayer to the Big Engine Builder in the sky on our behalf.

Holeshot

Don't forget that he also bored the engine too tight for forged pistons & blew them & the bore job away as well!!!!

1980_Cj7

Holeshot wrote
Don't forget that he also bored the engine too tight for forged pistons & blew them & the bore job away as well!!!!

Agreed, and not to mention our loss of the Jeep all summer, plus all our time and labor putting the engine in and out and back in again.

Blown7

Wow that explains alot! I was wondering how this saga was going. For all the replys on all these pages I know for myself I assumed that the engine was properly assembled. Jeff

AMX69PHATTY

Wow that is amazing the cam sprocket was mounted on the oil groove rather than the keyway. I can't imagine what that would do to cam timing or how one would get the sprocket timing marks to line up. I mean it seems the cam would be 180 degrees out of phase...... hmmm.....wow. But as far as what else is oiled, maybe the fuel pump eccentric, but other than that nothing else I believe. The heavy flat washer under the single cam bolt in the snout is what seals off this oil circuit. Make sure it is flat and smooth where it seats against the forward face of the Distributor gear. Don't over torque this bolt, I think it's only 35 ft. lbs. and make sure this bolt isn't too long and doesn't run out of internal threads in the front of the cam before pulling down tight. Have had to grind this bolt a little shorter before to prevent this. If it's too long it can run out of good threads in the cam hole and give false torque readings when being tightened.

1980_Cj7

The other thing is I wonder how tight the timing gear was. It seems like it would have had a lot of slop in it as the key didn't fit the rounded groove very well. I didn't think to check it for play, but I'm going to. I dug out the original stock cam and timing gear to show the machine shop how it all worked, without pulling the incorrectly mounted one off until I showed the butcher shop. In the original timing gear, the oil groove is a lot smaller and there is no way you could have put the key in it by mistake.

jeepsr4ever

Sure seems like they were in a hurry when they were rebuilding your 401 :oops:

Holeshot

Sounds like they smoke their lunches over a twelve pack at that shop. Maybe you should name them so as to protect others who may fall into their grasp!!!

1980_Cj7

jeepsr4ever wrote
Sure seems like they were in a hurry when they were rebuilding your 401 :oops:

I don't know how much actual time they spent on the engine, but the sad part is it took them forever to get it done. Caused us to miss the big PA Jeeps Show which is one of the highlights of our Summers for one thing.

Depends on how they treat us from here as to how much "publicity" we'll give them.

Mudrat

Show'm this thread and then play "Let's make a deal" :wink:

1980_Cj7

Just for kicks, I ran the CR calculator again using .040 over KB354 pistons with the Clevite cam we have. I adjusted the intake closing to the actual of 72 degrees ABC. Doesn't look too bad if I've done everything correctly. What do you think?

Again, our desire is to get as much power as we can out of pump gas.

ENTER YOUR DATA CALCULATED DATA
Cylinder Head Volume (cc) 58
Cylinder Head Vol (cubic in.) 03.538
Piston Head Volume (cc) 28
Piston Head Vol (cubic in.) 01.708
Gasket Thickness (in.) .045
Swept Volume (cubic in.) 51.106
Gasket Bore (in.) 4.275
T.D.C. Volume (cubic in.) 05.892
Cylinder Bore Diameter (in.) 4.205
Gasket Volume (cubic in.) 00.646
Deck Clearance (in.) 0
Note: Neg. number above deck, Pos. number below deck
Deck Volume(cubic in.) 00.000
Stroke (in.) 3.68
STATIC COMPRESSION RATIO 09.674

OPTIONAL DATA
Rod Length (in.) 5.858 Adjusted Stroke (in.) 02.676
Intake Closing Point (degrees) 72
(actual calculated from advertised duration of 294 degrees)
DYNAMIC EFFECTIVE COMPRESSION RATIO 07.308

Now, the big question is how far off was the cam when it was installed incorrectly, and how much of our problems was it causing. Maybe we should put a degree wheel on it with it installed the way it was and see what was happening, then degree it again installed correctly and see what that gives.

Blown7

wrote
Now, the big question is how far off was the cam when it was installed incorrectly, and how much of our problems was it causing. Maybe we should put a degree wheel on it with it installed the way it was and see what was happening, then degree it again installed correctly and see what that gives.

At this point I would worry about just getting the engine built correctly this time or you won't make next years PA Jeep shows. Time enough ahead to degree the cam properly.

Jeff

1980_Cj7

Jeff, I hear you. What I was getting at is we're trying to decide whether to use the same cam next time around or get a different one. We're trying to figure out if the problems were from the cam grind we had, or from it being installed incorrectly.

fuzz401

from it being installed incorrectly

Goose

I agree, the problem from having the cam out of whck like that.. (frankly I am amazed it ran..)

1980_Cj7

Was just reading about the cam anti-walk kit in the sticky post on distributor gears. Would it be a good idea to install one on our re-rebuild? We have a hydraulic cam that has about 300 miles on it. Will it hurt to install the anti-walk kit on a used cam? I was thinking it might change the wear pattern between the lifters and cam. I also want to check and make sure the front cam bearing has the groove, and the cam has the oil relief holes in the back end. Wasn't aware of these things the first time around and consequently didn't check them.

Mudrat

1980_Cj7 wrote
Was just reading about the cam anti-walk kit in the sticky post on distributor gears. Would it be a good idea to install one on our re-rebuild?

300 broke-back miles? 8) Or is this a different cam 111!!! :idea: :-| :!: :t: 8) :?

1980_Cj7

I spoke with the owner of the butcher shop - UCF MACHINE SHOP IN CARLISLE, PA and he is refusing to pay for another shop to correct and redo the motor correctly. He said that he would redo the motor and fix it at no cost himself.

I do not under any circumstances want these jokers working on my motor anymore. Does anyone know what kind of legal rights I may have? He indeed agrees that they messed it up and that it should be corrected, however he does not agree on the fact that I would like to select the new doctor.

He said "didn't I ever make a mistake?" I replied, yes, everybody makes mistakes and has bad days, but, it was more that one thing you screwed up: 1) cam installed wrong, 2) timing gear installed wrong and no oil getting to the timing chain, distributor gears, fuel pump eccentric, etc., 3) pistons installed .017" down the holes, 4) brand new rod bearings look like they have 100,000 miles on them already, and who knows what else we'll find when we continue tearing the engine apart. Plus, I'm sure if he redid the engine, we'd end up at least .040 over. The new engine shop said they'd take just the bare minimum to clean up the cylinders, then we could order custom pistons to fit.

The other thing is when we took the engine back to these clowns when it first started acting up, they looked at it and said they had no idea what was wrong. Even when we then tore the pistons out and showed them to them, they said they never saw anything like that and didn't know what would cause it.

Advertising isn't cheap, but I think these birds are gonna get some real cheap advertising...only not the kind I think they want!

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