Another 360 rebuild - Help PLEASE.

tbwingy

Hello, I am newbie. Thank goodness for all of you and this site. Any and all help greatly appreciated. I am in the process of rebuilding a 360 for my CJ-7 for the second time after 6,000 miles. What a disaster!! I trusted the shop and they suk'd. :(: I found a "never gone through before" block and must ask questions. :idea: I didn't before. #-o The CJ will be a daily driver and also drive over the passes around Teluride and Durango. After reading through the forum for days, is seems that all the other posts are rebuilding more of an engine that I need. Please recommend the following: Roller rockers? If so, what brand? High flow oil pump High flow water pump Valley oil line? If so, what kit? Crane or Comp Cam. Any recommended specs? I like Bulltear's nickle plated timing cover. Rings? Pistions? Parts connected to existing "never gone through before" block: Stock heads MSD Ignition, dist and coil NV3350 trans Parts planned to use: Edlebrock performer intake Edlebrock roller timing chain What is rotating assembly balanced? What other recommendations can you give? Please, all help is appreciated. Thank you. :t: Tommy

Mudrat

Hello tbwingy :wink: Lets see what we can work through here ... links are underlined

tbwingy wrote
Hello, I am newbie. Thank goodness for all of you and this site. Any and all help greatly appreciated. Thanks, we try

I am in the process of rebuilding a 360 for my CJ-7 for the second time after 6,000 miles. What a disaster!! I trusted the shop and they suk'd. Yeah,that does suck 🙁: I just built one for my CJ7 and I was looking for torq & HP
The CJ will be a daily driver and also drive over the passes around Teluride and Durango. Same here on the DD, but I don't have the elevations you do (sealevel) but trips to about 3200 -4400 ft
After reading through the forum for days, is seems that all the other posts are rebuilding more of an engine that I need. We do have some hi-HP kinda guys here :wink:

Please recommend the following:

Roller rockers? If so, what brand? You won't need them unless you plan on a lot of over 5K RPMs I kept he stock bridged rockers. If you feel the need - Harlan Sharp HS4004's are a nice set (but your intake and cam quit at 5500-6000 so there is no point - save the $200 bucks. Check the Rocker Thread
High flow water pump YES
High flow oil pump YES!
Valley oil line? If so, what kit? Unless your rapp'n hard you won't need that much. If you look in the "AMC Oiling" thread you'll see a couple alternatives. I opted to drill the block galleries from the mains tothe cam and opened the bearings to match.
Crane or Comp Cam. Any recommended specs? Nothing too radical For a DD stay under .500 lift. I think TUFCJ did a write up on cams somewhere?. I stuck a Summit K8600 in mine
I like Bulltear's nickle plated timing cover. YES, and get the integral fitted oil pump at the same time. :t:
Rings? Several good makers out there, the shop installed chrome molly in mine - but they build race motors for a living :wink:
Pistions? Stick with the cast if budget is the concern. You really won't need forged or hyper eutec's. If you gotta have'm, I think ROSS was the prefered type from antoher thread.

Parts connected to existing "never gone through before" block: Make sure you or the shop check the cylinder bores for roundness. Over time the dynamic forces will make an oval out of a round hole (cylinder) I had to go .030 to get them round and fit a stock oversized piston

Stock heads 291's are good enough for a DD. A good valve job is mandatory, new seals etc. Make sure the springs are matched for weight. The guys that built my heads slacked off there and it cost me an extra $220 to get it right at the race shop :smile: You might want to debur the intake and polish the exhaust a bit before you give them over for the rest of the work - adds a lot to the performance :t:
MSD Ignition, dist and coil :t:
NV3350 trans :t:

Parts planned to use:

Edlebrock performer intake :t: got the same one under an E-brock carb from Summit
Edlebrock roller timing chain Make it a double roller :wink: I got mine from Mad Dog Racing <$50

What is rotating assembly balanced? Anything and everything inside the engine (crank, pistons...) and the flywheel or flex plate are all balanced to reduce viberation

What other recommendations can you give? Please, all help is appreciated.

Thank you. :t:

Tommy

OK, I gotta go crash and get up for work in the morning to pay off the beast I built. Good luck on you build =D>

Mudrat

tbwingy

Tanx Mudrat, Your help is invaluable. I will bring these items up to the shop and if they give me the :-| , I'll have to send them to this forum. Once again, tanx and saludos, T

Mudrat

tbwingy wrote
Tanx Mudrat,

Your help is invaluable. I will bring these items up to the shop and if they give me the :-| , I'll have to send them to this forum.

Once again, tanx and saludos,

T

No problem Tommy, as for choice of Carb, and dealing with your altitude I defer to someone that knows those better. I originally was building my 360 to into a Grand Waggy so I went with an Edlebrock #1406. That plan changed.
When I can get a good tranny, the motor will be going into the CJ which will see significantly more off-road, off-camber situations than the mama-mobile would have. I've been reading about the Truck Avenger and some others, but I'm back in research mode on carbs. Any of them can be jetted for altitude changes, but it's the operating angles where some fail and some shine. EFI is the answer, but I'd have to work a couple months with no bills to get one :smile:

tbwingy

Mudrat, Thanks for the groovy information. :? I forgot to mention that I have the Holley TBI and I live in Austin (500-2,500 above sea level). The shop installed the Holley incorrectly as well. Fuel lines too small, fuel pump positioned too low. Wish i would have gone with a different system, but they recommended and I trusted. What is your opinion of this Holley and what other things are needed to make it work properly? I see that Maddog has a AMC Jeep 304 360 401 Performer '284H' cam kit n6w by Clevite. Any comments? The performance range starts at 1,800 RPM. Would that be to high for me? Should I be looking for a cam that starts at about 1,000? Do they make them? What am I compromising if my range starts that low. My range is low to about 4,500 rpm. High volume water pumps: Either better than other? Flow Kooler $102 Milodon $122 I apologize for being a pain in the neck by asking so many questions and thank you tremendously for all your expertise. :sa: T

tbwingy

My limited knowledge agrees with you about the EFI. Edlebrock package? The Holley has been a pain. Hope you get your EFI Jeep soon. No such luck for me - too many children. Either the jeep eats or they do. T

tbwingy

I don't mind spending a little extra if it will pay off in the long run. I noticed that Maddog has Comp Cam Magnum Roller Rockers 1.6 for about $150 Also Maddog has Rollmaster Billet timing set for about $120. Thanks again. If you're ever in Austin, we'll bar - b - que for ya. T

Mudrat

Wow you been busy with the post button :t:
I gotta work too ya know :wink:
OK, lets see ...
I have the Holley TBI and I live in Austin (500-2,500 above sea level). Cool! I'm originally from the Gulf Coast :? Born in Bay City, raised in SE Houston and 'Family' is the major population of Huntsville, Conroe with a few in Roundrock, Lubbuck, Waco, Killeen and of course SE Houston in Alvin :t:

Maddog has a AMC Jeep 304 360 401 Performer '284H' cam kit n6w by Clevite. Any comments? The performance range starts at 1,800 RPM. Would that be to high for me? Should I be looking for a cam that starts at about 1,000? Do they make them? What am I compromising if my range starts that low. My range is low to about 4,500 rpm.
Dunno about those packages. The only thing I can see you losing is low rpm torque, but yo don't need much off idle unless your street racing - when your rolling or wheeling, your RPM range should be mid-band of the package you assemble (intake, cam, carb, exhaust) HERE are the specs on my Summit cam. 1500-4500 RPM (and it's only 90 bucks now - WITH lifters !!!)

High volume water pumps: Either better than other?
Flow Kooler $102 Milodon $122
Can't speak for or against either - both are good names.

My limited knowledge agrees with you about the EFI. Edlebrock package?
EFI will be nice - BullTear has a setup you can check out under the "Products" section. But it will be a while before I get to it (wife, 2 teenage kids, 2.5 Jeeps and 2 Trucks) also. My motor is still on a stand 'cause I can't afford the tranny yet :smile: You want to add some juice? Tthere is an R4B intake on E-bay right now :wink:

Also Maddog has Rollmaster Billet timing set for about $120
How hard you plan on pushing this rig??? Your set up so far dies 4500-5000 RPM. do you really need a billet set of gears? If you have the dinero - do it! If your keeping to a semi-stable budget, THIS ONE for $50 should do ya :t:

I don't mind spending a little extra if it will pay off in the long run.
Think little :wink: . You have a great parts list running, but I think your going for more overkill than I did :!: And I try and build big so I can grow into it :?:

If you're ever in Austin, we'll bar - b - que for ya.
Your on bro :lo1l: I try and make it 'home' every year - missed the 4th this year cause I spent too much on Jeep parts 🙁: When I starte totalling whaat I did with machine work and all the parts - I'm pushing 4 bills just for the motor :shock: shhhhhh ..... don't tell my wife =D>

tbwingy

I am totally with you about the shhhh factor. My wife would be :shock: . She does not know about the forum or the extent of the rebuild. :^o If so, it would be [-X and no more :spermy: Once again, thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule. I think I found a solution. Comp Cams has a set of every thing for sale including a cam (252H) with .433 lift (800 - 5000 rpm), double roller chain, pushrods, magnum 1.6 rollers, lifters, etc.. Everything but valves. The last shop did such a bad job, I feel like I should replace everything. I imagine their chain will be sufficient. What do you think of the Cam. Too little? I will never be above 4000 rpm, in which case i don't need the rollers (thanks for pointing that out - maybe I won't get that part). I had read in another post, that some folks didn't like their summit cam? You seem to be happy. I will check in to that one as well. Have you heard about any happy peeps with the Holley TBI 650? Glad to hear you have so much family around here. Again, thx for the help and the links. You are helping me get past a lot of the questions that have brought me to a stand still. ](*,) . T

Mudrat

tbwingy wrote
Once again, thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule. No Problem

I think I found a solution. Comp Cams has a set of every thing for sale including a cam (252H) with .433 lift (800 - 5000 rpm), double roller chain, pushrods, magnum 1.6 rollers, lifters, etc.. Everything but valves. The last shop did such a bad job, I feel like I should replace everything. I imagine their chain will be sufficient.

What do you think of the Cam. Too little? I will never be above 4000 rpm, in which case i don't need the rollers (thanks for pointing that out - maybe I won't get that part). NEVER is a very terminal word. I've said that before and have been proven wrong. Very wrong :shock: Low range, on the trail, a great obsticle - you can rap up pretty quick!!

I had read in another post, that some folks didn't like their summit cam? You seem to be happy. I will check in to that one as well.

Have you heard about any happy peeps with the Holley TBI 650?

Glad to hear you have so much family around here.

Again, thx for the help and the links. You are helping me get past a lot of the questions that have brought me to a stand still. ](*,) .

T

Timmy

Mudrat wrote
My motor is still on a stand 'cause I can't afford the tranny yet :smile:

Some folks have had problems others haven't, I'm HOPING to be in that second group :idea: Edelbrock also has a "kit" out there you may want to look at. I think Matt can help on that one??
I still don't have a clear idea on the use you're planning. All DD and some trail? Mostly trail, some DD? Mild or wild trails? Mud or sand? (need RPM to spin tires)
AMC's like to breathe, most companies under cut the cam and smother the capabilities. .433 might be a bit shallow and I'm HOPING (hint, hint guys) that one of the big block guys (those with V-8 experiance) will jump in here sometime and get you some experianced answers (I may have to PM them to get them here though :-| ). Fuzz, Bob (TufcJ), Jeff (Blown7), MC :shock:
These guys have WAY more experiance than I do :smile:
As for the TBI 650 - I haven't heard wither way. When you find out let us in on how you feel about it :?

Pat

fuzz401

me i would not go under the comp 268 cam -- bigger motor can take more cam then a smaller motor till you start to see it

one of the big block guys

just because I like my motor in the shape of a V instead of a stright line :t:

Mudrat

fuzz401 wrote
one of the big block guys

just because I like my motor in the shape of a V instead of a stright line :t:

Oh POO!!!! :roll: Just 'Cause I have 3 in-line motors 8)
This is just my first AMC V-block :wink:

Blown7

A 401 a big block???Lmao Anyways I have a brandy new Reed cam still in the box I'll give away that will make oooodles of cylinder pressure down low in rpms ( hence torque) if you want it, (114 degree lobe). Me I like to see around a half a inch lift to get the air in with 45 degree seats. Cams are a long winded subject that I find the experts even disagree about what is good. You just have to read the cam build sheet and the dyno run numbers to make a decision. When I built the blower engine I had installed three different cams at different advances and retards on the dyno just to find the right numbers I wanted (all the cam manufactures insisted their cams where the best) Myself I don't believe what cam grinders say now or the dyno sheets if I'm not there to verify it (another story) Roller rockers are good whatever the application due to lower friction losses. Roller followers well thats another subject. Jeff

Mudrat

Blown7 wrote
A 401 a big block???Lmao Jeff

:-| 401 - - - 258 - - - 401 - - - 258. Yup, no matter how I crunch the numbers the 401 is BIGGER than the 258 8)
Hope you didn't LMOA too much you may need something to sit on :wink:

Thanks for the discussion. What cam grind did you find that worked for ya??

tbwingy

Just got in late from visit to parental units. Will post tomorrow after reading all your goodies. Thanx. T

tbwingy

Thanx for the info, Mud, Fuzz & Blown. Sounds like a title to a naughty movie. :oops: (hey, I'm happily married) That's a lot of engine for a CJ. Way to go Blown! Too much for me. This is mostly DD with mild trails in Texas hill county, Big Bend and southern Colorado (if I can ever get back up there) I like to creep up/down hills. Some can be hairy, thus my feelings for the .433. (limited knowledge) As you mention, the engine may be able to handle a higher lift cam. The cam I have now (dunno what the other shop put in) does not give enough at idle. Shouldn't I want to be able to have quick response at idle? Will i get it if the cam range starts at 1200 or 1500 rpm's? Do you have the specs for the edlebrock package? I will check in to the other comp cam mentioned. Thanx Fuzz. Thanks again. Your help is invaluable as I need to order the cam within the next day or two. :sa: Tommy :?

tbwingy

I found the Edlebrock performer package with lifters - 278/288, .448/.472 for idle to 5500 rpm. Would this be better than the Comp Cam set up? Sorry for all the questions, but I am going nuts 111!!! trying to make sure I don't xcrew this up again. Thanks again T

Mudrat

tbwingy wrote
I found the Edlebrock performer package with lifters - 278/288, .448/.472 for idle to 5500 rpm. Would this be better than the Comp Cam set up?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am going nuts 111!!! trying to make sure I don't xcrew this up again.

Thanks again

T

Doesn't sound too bad ... might could use (should use) some more dwell and more lift. Remember AMCs LIKE and NEED to breathe :wink: If you don't let air into your lungs, how far can you run?? Engines are the same way - no air no stamina :idea: Plus you'll get better gas milage :lo1l:
The K-8600 from Summit is listed at:
272* /282*
Lift in @ .472‚Äù Out @ .496‚Äù lift
And a lobe sep of 112*

tbwingy

You win. :? Thanx for all. That makes sense and that's what I need to do. :t: I'll put it together and give a report. Again, thx for all the help. You're the best. =D> T

Mudrat

No problem Tommy, and the only thing that's gunna cost you is PICS of the build :wink: