Scout D-44's to CJ7

79cj7duner

I am getting a set of scout Dana 44's from a guy who is trading for widetrack AMC 20 and D 30. I think the guy who wants these widetracks is nuts, as I'd take a 44 over two piece shafts and a weak housing any day, but anyway... What mods are necessary to swap scout 44's under a CJ7? My current Suspension is set up Spring-over, and I would like to do the same to the scout axles, so that work obviously has to be done. what about steering? Any help is appreciated!!

pyagid

the front axle you need to turn the Knuckles. Scout factory caster is 0* I believe you want 6-7* or you will have death wobbles due to the angles. There is and article here http://www.bulltear.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1006&highlight=

Also i believe for the front you will have to outboard your springs

-Paul

79cj7duner

Since I am going spring-over and have to weld teh perches anyway, couldn't you just tilt the pinion up and gain better driveline angles? or woould it cause oiling issues? The way I understand it is that it is like your bicycle. if you turn the handlebars around, pointing the wheel outwards, you can't ride it, but if it gets tucked up underneath, you have no trouble. :-| :-| :-| :-| :!:

pyagid

It is a combination, if you just rotate the axle, the angel your drag link and steering knuckles once it is rotated up. With out turning the knuckles your tie rod will be pointed towards the ground. And you will have negative caster. I believe you always want positive caster. And i have heard that gives the vehicle a tendency to wander, etc. IF this is not a DD i have seen people do this. If you do Drive it on the street i think it should be rotated. I dont think i am explaining this very well. Hopefully some one else could chime in -Paul

tufcj

pyagid got it right. The rear is pretty simple, just re-locate the spring pads and weld. Be sure to get your pinion angle right for the type of driveshaft you're using. About parallel with the t-case output if it's a standard u-joint. pointing straight into the driveshaft if you have a CV. The front is another story. Because the scout front is about 59" wide, vs. even the widetrack front being about 55", you have to "outboard" the front springs, or the right front spring ends up on top of the pumpkin when the axle is centered under the vehicle. For some reason scouts drove well with right around 0* caster. Jeeps need 4-6* positive caster, or they wander all over the road. If you draw a line thru the center of the ball joints, positive caster is when the top tilts toward the rear of the vehicle. Adding positive caster tips the pinion down, exactly what you DON'T want with a SOA. So the fix is to grind the knuckles loose from the tubes, rotate, and re-weld, or live with poor pinion angles or wander. I'm not a really big fan of the Scout 44 front anyway. You do get the bigger ring/pinion and 297 u-joints, but is still uses a Dana 30 size outer stub shaft and weaker external hubs, so you don't gain any strength there, and those become your weak points. I had a Scout 44 front, and when I figured it all out, it was less work to cut down a Chevy 44 (already SOA) and leave my springs in the factory position. With the correct mix of parts, you can run Ford rotors on it, and keep the 5 on 5.5" pattern, plus you get the bigger stub shafts and internal hubs for added strength. That's the way I went, and I haven't popped an axle in over 5 years (knock wood). I was breaking the 30 once or twice a summer. Bob tufcj

WheelingPiazza

People always say you will get death wobble, it wont track straight, it wont be right, blah blah blah..

I ran a uncut, unturned scout dana 44 SOA on a cj5 for 4 years. Never had death wobble, never had tracking issues, steering wheel would come back to center every time. When I set it up I set it at 0 caster. No problems no issues.

The only thing you will run into is your pinon will be pointed in the dirt. (well not in the dirt but you will possibly have binding issues on thedrive line) Again I clearnance the yoke a bit.

You will have to grind a perch in the housing, Not a big thing.

To run it on a CJ-5 frame you will have to outboard the springs, Again not a big thing.

My current setup is (rounding hte numbers here folks)
60 inch dana 44 scout front end. Scout inners, chevy outters with chevy knuckles and highsteer.
60 inch dana 44 wagoneer rear
4 wheel disc, 4.56, Dana 300, sm420
36 SX on MRT beadlocks
Outboarded springs in the front
JC whitney CJ-7 rear springs on the front, Modified Wrangler springs in the rear.
and a bunch of other stuff.

So yes you can spend the cash on a chevy narrowed front or you can just use what you have and go for it.

Sorry I dont feel like resizing the images.

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jeepsr4ever

:shock: Hell of a grind job ..LOL Its true you can run those axles like that and get a little more bump steer.

WheelingPiazza

couple of beers and a couple of grinding wheels.. hehe it wasnt that bad.. Just had to wear a resperator todo it.

I have Zero bump steer. When going a 44/60, Definatly go Highsteer. Period the end. Especially with a SOA.

Sorry again about the images.

jeepsr4ever

excuse me for saying this but you got a real purdy front end :?:

WheelingPiazza

:razz: :razz: haha its not so purdy after 3 years worth of wheeling on it.. I actually had it out of the jeep last weekend doing some work on it.. Its scratched and gouged and what not..

tufcj

This is mine on a Chevy 44HD (1/2" wall tubes), already SOA, so no grinding required. Mine is cut to 56", with no outboarding of the springs. High steer is the only way to go, I couldn't get anything else to work without clearance issues. It's got Jeep outer knuckles, 74-75 Wagoneer spindles with Ford rotors (5 on 5.5" lug pattern). It still runs Chevy backing plates and calipers. The short side axle shaft is factory Wagoneer, the long side is custom cut. The high steer arms are from Tri-County Gear.

79cj7duner

Some good info popping up here! Thanks for all the replies! Wheeling piazza said you have to outboard the springs on a CJ5, I am assuming the same is true for a CJ7 because the frame dimensions are the same, correct? If I feel adventurous (spelling) I might cut the knuckles and rotate, but If I can get away with not doing it, I will just leave it alone. I am going to run the stock outers for awhile, until I can find the time and the coin to do it all up right. I'm gonna concentrate on bearings, seals and gears first, then worry about the outers. hell, I'll porbably never blow them as it is, but I'm the kind of person who likes insurance... Who makes the best outboard spring kit, or did you build it yourself?

pyagid

it is not that hard of a think to put together yourself. But Blue Torch Fab makes one and so do Poison Spyder

I have been thinking about using the BTF Kit I like the integrated front bumper, and the smaller mount for the shackle side. Although the PSC rear mount does allow for adjustability

-Paul

WheelingPiazza

I am pretty sure on a CJ-7 you have to outboard your springs as well.. No need for a kit they are way to expensive and you end up with bad departure and approch angles. Plan on doing a shackle reversal at the same time. 1/4 4x4 angle, some plate to make a triangle on hte frame and some CJ-7 rear spring hangers. Easy.. Either way you do it, cut the front end down, grind in your spring perch location What ever, each way you are good togo. Steve

79cj7duner

Wow, talk about sticker shock! I just priced some of the kits for outboarding. the thing is, I am only concerned about doing it to the front, the rear of these frames is a lot wider, so it's not necessary on the rear. I think I am going to wind up fabbing my own brackets, although it would be cool to use some of PSC's gussests that have the maltese cross lasered into them :?

WheelingPiazza

Yep, I figured you would find that out.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: You could still do the gussets just incoporate them in your metal is all.. and you are correct no need todo the rear because the spring perches on the axle can be moved. When you prep the axles to be installed Take every thing off, Spring mounts and shock mounts. you will be doing new ones anyways.

Mudrat

79cj7duner wrote
Wow, talk about sticker shock!
... I think I am going to wind up fabbing my own brackets, although it would be cool to use some of PSC's gussests that have the maltese cross lasered into them :?

You can buy the gussets seperatly if you REALLY want them. :shock:

Just do it!! I took a MORE shackle revers and cut down the mounts. Had some issues with spacing since I had already welded on 3/8" frame plates so my dimentions were different than "normal" (define "normal" for me?)

To make the offset right, I also incorporated my winch mount into the shackle mount - 3x5x1/4 Angle iron risers thru bolted. I'll bolt the 1/4 winch plate onto the riser with 1/2" grade 8's

Mudrat

Lifted79CJ7

I did a spring over with scout axles also. I ground down the top of the pumkin for the springs. I also turned the pumkin up due to the amount of lift I am running. Since I was changing the pinion angle, I had to knock off the knuckels to add caster. Here is a pick of my outboarded spring mount:

I used 4" rubicon express extreme duty leaf springs. I still need to put on high steer and refab my shock and swaybar mounts. As for the rear axle, all you have to do is knock of the spring mounts and remount them closer to the pumkin.

Let me know if you need any info.....

WheelingPiazza

Mudrat, you dont find you hang on those spring hangers at all? Mine are nice and tucked up there..

Mudrat

WheelingPiazza wrote
Mudrat, you dont find you hang on those spring hangers at all?

Mine are nice and tucked up there..

Well they're shaped a little bit different now but I still wanted some meat to cover the spring eyes. And, I haven't had them out yet. I'm on the home stretch of a 5 year total rebuild.
But - 'hang' in mud??? BWwwhahahahahahaha, never been hung-up in mud :lo1l: Stuck - oh heck yeah :oops: Rock maybe though, and I am a bit concerned about that.
The problems I had were using the stuff I had in the shop and on the Jeep after the MORE spring reverse and adding the 3/8 frame plates on each side
I'll see how they work. If not good - I have a torch and know how to use it :wink:

Mudrat