Not funny

Mudrat

History buffs take notice - just like the Soviet Union ...

Washington politicians are once again seriously considering imposing a national identification card ‚Äì and it may well become law before the end of the 108th Congress. The much-hailed 9/11 Commission report released in July recommends a federal identification card and, worse, a "larger network of screening points" inside the United States. Does this mean we are to have "screening points" inside our country where American citizens will be required to "show their papers" to government officials? It certainly sounds that way!

As I have written recently, the 9/11 Commission is nothing more than ex-government officials and lobbyists advising current government officials that we need more government for America to be safe. Yet it was that same government that failed so miserably on September 11, 2001.

Congress has embraced the 9/11 Commission report uncritically since its release in July. Now Congress is rushing to write each 9/11 Commission recommendation into law before the November election. In the same way Congress rushed to pass the PATRIOT Act after the September 11 attacks to be seen "doing something," it looks like Congress is about to make the same mistake again of rushing to pass liberty-destroying legislation without stopping to consider the consequences. Because it is so controversial, we may see legislation mandating a national identification card with biometric identifiers hidden in bills implementing 9/11 Commission recommendations. We have seen this technique used in the past on controversial measures.

A national identification card, in whatever form it may take, will allow the federal government to inappropriately monitor the movements and transactions of every American. History shows that governments inevitably use the power to monitor the actions of people in harmful ways. Claims that the government will protect the privacy of Americans when implementing a national identification card ring hollow. We would do well to remember what happened with the Social Security number. It was introduced with solemn restrictions on how it could be used, but it has become a de facto national identifier.

The rest of the story ...

Mudrat - is there any place to hide???

Goose

Jesus Rat my hair is standing on end.. We need to get on the phone fax whatever .. this is not the country I served nor the freedom we fought for..

Mudrat

Goose wrote
Jesus Rat my hair is standing on end.. We need to get on the phone fax whatever .. this is not the country I served nor the freedom we fought for..

Me neither and Kerry wants to turn over all our toops to the UN???? He said that wasn't his intention during the Debates, but look at his voting record and the proposal in his book - a "world force".

Mudrat

Goose

Yea, Kerry and the whole bunch scare the wits out of me.. It would seem thier vision of the future is not to help other countries and peoples rise to the level of freedom we enjoy but to bring us down to the sorta socialist "workers paradise" third world status Imagine a united world living in squalor to support an engorged government. while at the same time losing any hope of corecting the situation. I shudder at the thought. (all of this typed while the tumbler polishes a couple hundred .308 cases) :wink:

Penguin

In your hurry to do something you might want to look at what you have pushed in the past. These are laws the republicans are trying to pass. You did a great job of making sure it will happen by voting republican. I made the mistake of voting Republican 4 years ago, look what happened, didn't make that mistake again. I used to be a republican, now I am an American. Sorry, I had to add this. It really bothers me when people scream about their rights being trampled but yet they pushed to put people in office doing said problem. The two party system has to go.

Mudrat

Penguin wrote
The two party system has to go.

Won't argue that.

But the ogliarchy is what we have for a system and that still beats a monarchy or theocracy. <pick one you like from Here >

Until we can get what you call, "An American" in the Oval Office, Bush is better. Kerry was, is, and will forever be a liar and a traitor, and in my book the greater of the two evils by a country mile - and that Country is America! I gave up more than 30 years of civilian profeteering so you could have a free choice, cause the world know's you won't ever get rich while IN the military.

< - - click

Survivor of Vietnam, Grenada, Bosnia (twice), Desert Storm I, and countless other skirmishes and "Operations" brought on or exacerbated by BOTH parties.

Mudrat

Penguin

I never said I was not thankful for anything you or anyone else did for me. And I really can't understand how me pointing out that these laws were started by the republicans could question what you have done for me let alone for your country, I agree you couldn't have done it for the money. I have to admit I could never serve in the military, maybe when my cares were a bit less but now if I am ordered to do something I have to know why. I just can't take it on faith that the person who said to kill this other person was making the correct choice. It takes a stronger man than I to do that job. I think our system is the best there is. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. However I think that maybe it has gotten way out from what it was originally planned. From what I have been reading lately, Constitution, Bill of Rights, it seems to me we have strayed way to far from the original idea. But I guess that is the way it is and we can't change it. :-|

Soylent_Green

The federally issued identifaction card is nothing but a preperation for the extinction of social security. Once social security is gone, there will be a need for a way to individually identify each citizen. As for "checkpoints" where you would need to show this card? How is that different than how the social security number is used now? Try getting a loan, or a job, a bank account, or health care without a SS number. I don't think that the idea of a federal identification card is such a bad idea. I think people as a whole are merely afraid of change. just my .02

Mudrat

Penguin wrote
I think our system is the best there is. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. However I think that maybe it has gotten way out from what it was originally planned. From what I have been reading lately, Constitution, Bill of Rights, it seems to me we have strayed way to far from the original idea.
But I guess that is the way it is and we can't change it. :-|

It has gotten out of hand and there are numerous instances of the abuse of power going all the way back to POTUS #1 (The first George :wink: ) If your into research, read Thomas Paine's, "Common Sense" (1776) or "The Crisis " (1783) eye openers. Or, if you want to research what the corruption was like in the late 17 early 1800's, read the Federeralist Papers buy Hamilton, Madison and Jay.
We can also point back to the Dems that took a good idea and made it sour. Social Security (adopted in Aug 1935). Declared as involute by Pres F.D. Roosevelt (D-New York) the $$ paid in was the property of the person who paid into it suplemented by Federal $$$ Later the Dems decided they needed it to support themselves and pet 'social programs' to get them elected. Now, thanks also to the Dems, nobody in Congress pays into social security, but they get to draw 100% of their last paycheck the rest of their lives. Where we get about $11K per YEAR not $12K per MONTH like a 1st year Senator or $20K PER MONTH for a former POTUS. All out of our pocket - not theirs. (quick math 800+ 'retired' politicians getting almost $140 MILLION a year in $$$ out of OUR pocket and into theirs, without them investing a single dime.)
So, If you're banking on Social Security to retire on - DON'T do something for yourself first - maybe go into politics and change it :?

Sorry [/rant] off...
This is a pet peeve of mine if you can't tell. If you want to change it, vote an honest person in office (IF the choice ever happens) to set term limits with the mandate to FIX social security - make them pay for what they get and you'll see a lot of reform happen - and not just with SSA!!

Mudrat

Soylent_Green wrote
The federally issued identifaction card is nothing but a preperation for the extinction of social security. Once social security is gone, there will be a need for a way to individually identify each citizen.

As for "checkpoints" where you would need to show this card? How is that different than how the social security number is used now? Try getting a loan, or a job, a bank account, or health care without a SS number.

I don't think that the idea of a federal identification card is such a bad idea. I think people as a whole are merely afraid of change.

just my .02

Florida is experementing with 'monitoring' drivers that have the 'pay pass' for toll boths. Theya re going to build a data base on how long it takes a driver to go from toll booth to toll booth under the guise of traffic pattern improvement. What if driver A averages 20 min and driver B only takes 10. Math says B is twice as fast as A and therefore needs to be watched for other speeding activity. Can you say ticket without police corroberation because your pay pass ratted you out? Can't happen you say? It's already being done in Ohio and PA turnpikes. The machine averages your speed when your ticket is punched for the toll. Interesting when the booth attendant told me I had 'made good time'. "Whaddya mean?" I respond. "You averaged 62MPH on your drive."
Look into RFID - radio frequency identification and how it's been used to tag pets for years, the FDA just approved the implant for humans. "So you don't have to carry ID or credit cards, just scan your hand (or arm)". So, since there are satellites that track these things, if YOU get tagged like your pet, a shipping container (required on ALL DoD shipments overseas by Jan 2005) or what ever you can be tracked. Same with your S/S# it was Never supposed to be used as a personal identifier, but that's what it's turned into - drivers licence #, checks, bank accounts, PERSONAL IDENTIFICATION all the way back to your birth certificate.
Other check points? Sounds like the former USSR and the KGB. Translate that, (KGB) Homeland security.

I'm skeered!!

Mudrat

Goose

I'm with ya Rat.. Sometimes we should be afraid of change.. Lets say that a federal ID card issued now isnt too bad..What if a new president decides in a few years that certain types of people are dangerous and need to be rounded up and detained..Cant happen you say wouldn't happen you say.. Yea so did a lot of Jews in 1939..It can and does happen .. those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.. I've read some history lived some of it and I have no intention of having My children repeat some of it..

cheapjeep

Goose wrote
I'm with ya Rat.. Sometimes we should be afraid of change..
Lets say that a federal ID card issued now isnt too bad..What if a new president decides in a few years that certain types of people are dangerous and need to be rounded up and detained..Cant happen you say wouldn't happen you say.. Yea so did a lot of Jews in 1939..It can and does happen ..

those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it..
I've read some history lived some of it and I have no intention of having My children repeat some of it..

Don't forget about the Japanese in American during WW2. They were rounded up and put in internment camp's.

Penguin

Hey Mud, I got busted on the Ohio turnpike many years ago. A group of us were heading that way to goto Cedear Point. We were doing really good time. When we got to the toll both we were told to pull over and wait over there.(point off to the side) Man in uniform walks out and starts to write us tickets all 5 vehicles. I have never ran fast through that area again. I make sure I stop for gas when I am on the turnpike to offset the time. About the pet RFID, I do believe that you have to be with 100' of the tag for it to work. Not sure on that though. Did you know the older SS cards they used to issue had printed on them "Not to be used for identifcation". I guess the goverment should have listen to its own design. And oh do I agree with you on this issue. I knew a guy that was taking as much out of SS as I was making working my buns off. He never worked a day in his life and would never work one again. Still collects money.

Mudrat

Penguin wrote
I have never ran fast through that area again. I make sure I stop for gas when I am on the turnpike to offset the time.
About the pet RFID, I do believe that you have to be with 100' of the tag for it to work. Not sure on that though.
Did you know the older SS cards they used to issue had printed on them "Not to be used for identifcation". I guess the goverment should have listen to its own design. And oh do I agree with you on this issue.

Heheheh I didn't tell her I had stopped for lunch!!!!
Whaddaya mean "older SS cards?" That's what mine says :shock:
As part of my job I read RFID Journal and some other technical crap. The pet ID is good to about 3m (9 feet), but they have tags that are in the UHF radio freq range that are detectable by satellite. Usually they are bigger and have 115VAC applied (as well as GPS beacons), but who's to say that "Big Brother" dosen't have "scanners" on the traffic lights, cameras, or toll boths? And did you know that if you have On-Star, your vehicle location can be tracked even if your not a subscriber? And the proposed OBDC=III systems for newer cars also has GPS and can ratt you out??

Scarey stuff when you start reading into it... :shock:

Mudrat

Soylent_Green

I completely agree with the idea of speeding tickets given out at toll booths. :t: Speeding and agressive driving is a growing problem in this country. If this system makes you think twice about breaking the speed limit, then GOOD! The roads are becoming safer one viehicle at a time. You'll probably never thought about the lives that have been saved by this system helping people obey the law. think about that next time you see a bad crash, wonder what if that guy was going 70 on his way to work instead of 80? I've gotten speeding tickets before, yes, but never one that I didn't deserve. Now I always obey the speed limits, not just to be safe, reduce wear on my truck, or not pay any expensive citations, but becaue I refuse to be part of the problem. my .02 (think i'm runnin' out of pennies)

Mudrat

Soylent_Green wrote
my .02
(think i'm runnin' out of pennies)

Doubt that :-)

Agree that speeding is a major problem and I too just roll with the flow. Ever drive the 295/95 road between Richmand and Washington DC? If your not doing 80 to keep up, you'll get rear-ended!!

But, the fact that "Big Brother" can track my movements without my knowlege bothers me. Like a wire tap in your bedroom - it just shouldn't be!! I didn't get the On-Star for that reason and I won't get an OBDC III equiped vehicle for the same reason. What I do is my business, and should not be open to the governments random pleasure. (First, fourth, fith and I think 10th Amendments GUARANTEE that right)

Too many cases where a government agency has made a mistake and NOT paid for it. Raiding the wrong house, busting everything up, then hide behind "their right" instead of admitting a mistake and fixing the damage or returning the confiscated property. DEA and BATF are the worst 2 organizations for that.... "Oh, sorry wrong address" or, "We received an anonomous tip there was a drug dealer here. Your clean - see ya. Have a nice day" - but no restitution.

Another pet peve of mine.

Pat

Soylent_Green

I can agree with that, Mudrat. Ever wonder exactly when "Innocent until proven guilty" turned into "Guilty until proven Innocent" ??

rollen dean montoya

speed , what speed! the I-5 thru L.A. goes maybe 5 mph or less. I-15 on a friday you are lucky if you can go 20 mph. thats where the dirt roads come in :mrgreen:

Mudrat

rollen dean montoya wrote
speed , what speed! the I-5 thru L.A. goes maybe 5 mph or less. I-15
on a friday you are lucky if you can go 20 mph. thats where the dirt roads come in :mrgreen:

The same with 8, that's why I never go back to So Cal to live. 111!!!

mudrat