jeepsr4ever
The dimples are where the hot metal gets injected and doesnt matter for alignment. The shafts arent critical unless they are too short or too long. You will find they vary up to .05"
1980_Cj7
In the front cam bearing, is there supposed to be a groove the whole way around the bearing, the cam, or both?
How many oil relief holes in the back cam journal? The stock cam has two. Didn't get to check the new cam yet.
AMX69PHATTY
Front Cam Bearing and/or Journal, as I understand it, the groove can be in one or the other or both, just as long as it's there.
Rear Cam Journal Relief holes, either one or two, just as long as they're there and go all the way through.
Also may want to check that each of the Cam Bearings in the Block are installed such that the hole through the side of'em lines up properly with the Oil Feed Hole in the Block itself.
Bulltear I believe has Cam Bearings available with reduced Oil Hole size to limit oil delivery to the Cam Journals and improve Oil flow to the Crank Mains and Rods.
jeepsr4ever
Yes front camshaft bearing needs a groove around it so the camshaft and distributor gears are always fed oil. I do believe all current sets have this groove.
Gambler
Very helpful thread!
Part of the pile of parts I got for rebuilding my 75 401 was a Cloyes double roller set. (from MadDog). I had paid for the upgraded option on their 270 Cam kit, and although he said on the phone the upgrade was the SA Gears, I got a cloyes kit. It's certainly not as pretty as the SA Gears, but it's a double roller, so whatever. Anyways, I saw in this thread about the oiling groove in on the cam gear (which I assume is the larger of the 2 gears in the set, regardless thats the one I'm talking about). The oiling groove is IMO sloppy, exactly in the middle there's a little ridge. Is this the flashing which needs to be removed? The groove is plenty wide front and back, it's just in the middle where the obstruction is.
thanks! :t:
1tuffcj
great thread and great site. i'm just finishing up a ground up build on my 79 cj5 with a 401/727t/f, i put a comp cam and a pro form dizzy, new timeing cover, new oil pump and gear's. beside the leaky head gaskets, i had 25 psi at idle cold and hot when i rev it it dos'nt seen to go up in pressure, is this correct does it need to be under load to make the pressure rise. i don't know if the gear's are gonna break or not, i have to test drive it, trying to fix the head gasket problem. post in engine section. thanks mikey
northplainsdrifter
Great info in this site.
I put an HEI in an older 360 and shredded my cam gear. With all this info I don't need to ask questions, I'm getting a matched gear set and should be hitting the trails fast! :lo1l:
Jeepnofear
I bought a new short block and it was my daily driving for about a year at about 70 miles a day. It sat for a year and half but I started it once or twice a month while I was restoring the truck. When I finished restoring it I started driving it alot again and everything seemed fine then the cam gear stripped and the fuel pump went out at the same time. Oil pressure was fine.
Can miss matched gears last that long?
rollbar
So with all that, what oil filter do U recomend for a '74 360. I don't know what's in this motor but I did fire it up a while back & it sounded like it had a little work.
Some old pic at that stage of the game.
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_0189.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_0185.sized.jpg[/img]
Here is one w/just the body sitting on it cause I had to move it to my new residence. I have to use a short oil filter cause it is very close to the bracket before the m-mount. U can see the bracket in the first pic.
[img]http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_0750.sized.jpg[/img][/url]
Mudrat
So are you ALL voting when you see the link??
[url=http://top4x4sites.com/cgi-bin/arp/rankem.cgi?id=MCfrom][color=blue][b][u][size=6]VOTE[/size][/u][/b][/color][/url]
We need to get everybody to click just a once a day!!
rollbar
I voted :t:
Mudrat
rollbar, just loked at your pics again (cause I think it's a cool green :wink: ) but I just noticed your alternator belt doesn't loop the crank pully. Any reason???
rollbar
Just keeping it shorter. U think it would be better to run it by the crank & if so, why. If I do run it there I would need a idler pully, correct.
P.S. I have the other bracket for the front of the PS unit.
Mudrat
Well, being shorter you wouldn't get the whipping motion I see in mine, but your making the water pump into a driver instead of an idler. Just hadn't seen it like that before. And if you lose the PS belt, you've also lost the water pump and the alternator, instead of just the PS - no redundancy. To replace it (trail spare?) you have to pull the PS belt off anyway, so I guess it's 50/50. Don't think it would hurt anything if you can pull off the trail and fix it before the battery died.
An Idler would be a nice touch to keep the belt from vibrating so much :t: That's why I'm hoping for an afordable serpentine setup :wink: With the idler holding tension, swapping them out would be pretty nice and only need to carry 1 belt as a spare :?
rollbar
Well I C your point, maybe I should change it and add a idler pully where the old bracket is just under it. I would really like to move the PS unit down into the hole so it's not 10 miles up in the air. I might get it going and then check into it but then again, it's easier to do it now B-4 the front end is on.
Mudrat
It would be easier to access, that's for sure. Maybe MC can make up a lower mount, I'd like to get mine outta the way of the dizzy as well. And I still think it looks cool in OD :t:
How the rest of the conversion coming?
rollbar
Click on my link in my sig line. The underside of the tub is done and after I get the tranny lines in I will install the tub then paint it and rock-n-roll.
If MC could make one it would be great and to be ABLE to have ROOM to get to the fuel pump.
Maybe I can be a proto type :)
I still have to buy the oil block off plate from him when I get a chance.
wildly
How can I view, cast timming cam gear, old style roll master cam gear and new style roll master with bearing cam gear. Also any other pictures that will help me with my repair.
Thank you very much for your help.
Wildly
jeepman1
[QUOTE=jeepsr4ever;74896]Here is a list of things that can cause distributor and cam gear wear.
1. Oiling holes throught the large timing gear, the groove for the oiling hole must be at 2:00 from the keyway, also all passages must be clear.
2. Cam bearing at the front of the block must have a groove in it, this sends oil through the cam at all orientation and rotation of the camshaft.
3. The cam must have a 90 degree oiling hole setup to feed the timing gear and must be free from casting obstruction.
4. Cam gear must be matched to the distributor gear. Their are 2 types of cam gears out there and at least 3 types of distributor gears, they CANNOT be mismatched, replacing just the cam gear will cause big problems.
5. The timing cover: The oil pump drive gear's shaft that connects to the distributor goes through a hole in the timing cover, this is a precision hole and if tapered can cause distributor gear wear through chatter.
6. Oil pump gears: Using longer than stock or poorly made after market gears can cause chatter, binding or premature wear of the oil pump drive gear's shaft hole. When you install a aftermarket kit that comes with new gears the idler gear pin MUST be longer. The cam and distributor gears are only rated at a certain torqueload. Some of the new gears available as of 4-22-05 are now hardened (both gears) and can withstand greater pressures
7. Oil filter.......Yes oil filters can cause premature dizzy and cam gear wear. If you run the wrong oil (too heavy) or a filter that gets clogged early or a filter that isnt a high flow you open up your oil filter bypass and not only send dirty oil through your motor, you also exerpt a high amount of pressure on the oil pump and that alone can cause gear wear, this happens mostly on start up. In late 87 chrysler got rid of the oil filter bypass on the oil filter adaptor, after market oil filter adaptors also have this cast in. Beware that if you use a high pressure oil pump spring without a oil filter bypass you run the risk of ballooning your filter.
8. Cam walk: Cam walk can be attributed to a cocked or poorly place cam plug (large freeze plug that hold the cam from leaving the rear of the block. Also cam walk can be caused by bad lifters, worn cam bearings, cam bearings installed improperly, or a poorly ground cam and in some cases a new cam that gets flattened on startup
9. Cam walk can also be attributed to lack of relief holes in the back of the cam, you see pressure can increase between the end of cam and cam plug, most of these cam must be checked, we have 3 in here with no relief holes...............dang summit
10. The retainer washer for the front of the cam that holds the distributor gear must also provide a positive seal for proper oiling. Off the shelf washers can sometimes have nicks or be convex or concave which to factory torque specs can lead to a loss of oil in front of the camshaft.
11. The installation of the timing cover without locator pins or worn location holes will cause a mis-orientation of the thrust on the distributor gear and eventually may result in a broken or heavily worn set.
12. Early Crown timing covers that were not checked for proper dimensional tolerance can attribute to up to 100% of the fast gear wear. Even today vendors should check for proper alingment.
I have seen a AMC V8 go 210,000mls without any cam walk and very little gear wear. I have also seen a AMC V8 go 2 miles and eat the gears. The factory engineers knew all this and they put these motors together accordingly. Building a AMC V8 can be a expensive build and its a dirty dirty shame to have something like a cam or distributor gear go out, this can cause Major scoring on the oil pump cavity and also can cause the oil filter bypass to open and voila, roached bearings. Hope these hints help anyone out who is building a AMCV8.
-MC[/QUOTE]
Good info is hard to come by..
oldcarnut
Having chewed gear issues and wondering how I should proceed. Engine in restored car, 1969 390 previously rebuilt by a prior owner (2002?) with few miles and I don't know what parts were used other than new Venolia pistons and Comp roller tip rockers. When I pulled msd distributor gear was chewed. Noticed when I cranked engine and tried to pull distributor it would bind at a certain spot and not on the rest. Used dial indicator and found cam gear was out of round. (maybe normal?) Ordered matched set of gears from Bulltear. Used dial indicator and cam gear now seemed to be within specs. Installed those on a NOS AMC distributor and put into the car. Ran 100 miles and same thing. Distributor gear has one tooth that has no wear but lots of wear on the rest. Again distributor would bind very hard on one area but when engine turned more became loose. Timing cover does not have AMC part number. I have access to used AMC parts however am not adverse to buying new to not have this reoccur. I was going to try turning the pump and see if I can see oil moving around through the fuel pump hole and if so take the pump off and see if the distributor now goes in easily. Before I do anything I thought I would get some opinions as it seems many people have had this problem.
I can see two possible avenues to take.
1)Check for oil getting to the dist gears, take the front cover off and replace with either used AMC after checking clearances or Bulltear, check the timing gear to make sure it's either an AMC one or that it has the proper oil passages, check oil pump gears or put new ones, change the cam and dist gears to either new Bulltear again or used AMC, change oil filter and oil and put magnetic drain plug. This should rule out the dist, cam gear, timing gear, front cover and oil pump but will not address any cam oiling issues, if the rear cam plus was inserted to far in or any damage that may have been done. It can all be done with engine in the car which is my preference.
2) Take the engine out, check all the above plus the cam and all the bearings.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
