BRAD ARTHUR
[url]http://www.partsamerica.com/SelectParts.asp?SourceArea=SHOP&PartType=166&PTSet=A&Description=Engine+Parts+%26+Mounts&SourcePage=PartTypes&SearchFor=Timing+Set[/url]
ha sanyone heard of different size timing sets for amc v8 this site shows a 7/8" and a 5/8" . whats up with that. should it be a concern, for camgear wear? never heard anyone else talking about different width chain and gears.
fuzz401
1 could be a single roller chain the other could be a double roller chain
for a little more money this is a good timming chain set
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&tc=photo&item=7919729794&category=33625[/url]
BRAD ARTHUR
it happened again for a 3 rd time. after 20 miles i pulled the distributor to check the wear , and the cam gera again?????
1)this time i changed timing set from cloyes to edelbrock and it is much much better quality and heaveir timing set.
2)z&m jeep treated me excellent on service after the sale ...snet my distributor to them because i thought uit had too much end play1/8" , they reshimed it checked it all out and gave me a new cap and rotor, then shipped it back to me. excellent service and product from a small company, i would recomend them over the bigger more expensive hei's out there.
3) after reinstallation this time i left the fuel pump off ,so when i primed the oil system i could see if their was oil coming out front cam gear. there was! so this isn't an oiling problem
4)i am still using bulltears nickle timing cover
5) the 2nd cam shaft edelbrock performer/ first was summit 8600
6) a matched distr. drive gear set from bulltear both times
i really don't think i have cam walk, iam getting oil to the gears .......my guess............the dist. needed a shim between the housings, the flat , bottom of the dist shaft was not bottoming out on the oil pump gears.........although when my cam gear gets chewed it seems to be the same everytime::::: the top half of each tooth gets the wear:::each time. where the distr. shaft becomes round from flat could be bottoming out not allowing the gears to mesh deep enough.
2nd geuss the oil pump gears are not the ones that came with the timing cover..... could possibly be to long of a shaft not allowing the distr. gears the mesh properly .
thats all i got .........................i have about had it with this problem there has to be a logical explanation to it. any help or measurements on timing cover ,oil pump shaft ,or distr. gear/shaft depth would be great? orv any other suggestions
please help me
thanks brad
jeepsr4ever
Your nickel cover must have hand fitted gears. My guess is that the machinist who assembled your motor forced the gears in the case. Take the pump off I will send you a new gasket. Make sure the gears spin freely without the distributor in.
BRAD ARTHUR
he said the new oilb pump gears were spining free , and the ones that were originally in it would not? i don't know i didn't heck them. i will now . is there different thinkness gaskets for the oil pump . i thought i read that some oil pump shafts were 1mm longer than others? if the gears weren't seated fully would they wear that quick? same oilgears have been in there since 1 st start.
i think i am finding all possibilities to this problem that could ever happen, what do you think> also about dist. bronze gear or have any measurements?
BRAD ARTHUR
yesterday i was checking everything out thouroghly. the last gear that got wore out was only after 20 miles. cam gear again, i changed timing chain set to an edelbrock set, and used z&m's reshimmed distributor with a matched set of distributor drive gears. all that was different. i found yesterday that the new edelbrock timing set had a # cast on the cam gear(# 1420) my fuel pump ecentric was touching on the 0 the way the key ways line up wasn't allowing the ecentric to lay flat on the timing-cam gear. 0 was raised about .030" , this could of threw the alignment off on the dist. drive cam gear. and allow some oil to escape before it got to the dist. gear. since the gear only lasted 20 miles i feel that was my problem, and that was a 1st time for that timing set.
i pulled the oil pump gear and everything there was fine can be spun by hand easily with filt. adapter installed. the pump drive shaft wasn't beviled at the end of the flat drive, so i took some material off ,just in case the distributor shaft was bottoming out, at the top of the flat .
the cam can be pryed out of the face of the block .090" (with use of a pry bar). it only has .050"-.060" before the bolt on the cam hits the cover. there are no marks on the cover. very little movement, is this normal? a cam botton could only be .020"-.040". no other signs of cam walk.
i installed new longer rollpins for aligning the timing cover, i am using a factory cam gear and a mallory brass dist . drive gear-pre soaked in lucas. i will also prime the oil pump and check oil flow out of the cam -dist drive gear-via the fuel pump hole.
any other suggestions or comment are welcome. again the 1st gear lasted---- 500 miles---- no oil through the timing-cam gear& mismatched drive gears,---2nd 250miles--------- ditributor end play was 1/8" the step shim (that came with the bulltear gears set)was installed upside down, ---3rd------- 20 miles 0 cast in the edel. timing-cam gear was hitting the fuel pump ecentric not allowing them to sit flush.
boy these amc parts have a lot of quality issues, just fine details. hopefully this takes care of all problems i would like to drive it someday.
thanks for everyones help, and give me your comments . please
thanks brad
Dusty
Dont know if this helps you much but i just went to pickup my distributor from the machine shop..... Edlebrock FI kits come with undrilled. they put the gear on with the gear facing down and the polished end up. #-o correct me if im wrong here but it gear up polished und down. Oh well flip the gear over put a pin in the wrong hole redrill. this time they will read the instructions a little closer instead of assuming.
But that would create a little bit of stress too on the gears.
So did ya get her straightened out Brad?
BRAD ARTHUR
yea i think, have about 300 miles on her and shes still going. pulled the dist out at about 150 and gears still looked new! finally!!
thanks to mc, i ended sending everything besides the block to him, he mocked up all parts and found the distributor was .012" to long. if you've followed my story that wasn't my only problem. i think all parts that could be wrong, were.
my advice to anyone having this problem check all parts thourghly. i changed most parts at one time when i rebuilt. didn't know all that i know now. when you assemble check the parts with mc list of possible causes. the quality of alot of these after market parts, suck . i think they design&build of one engines parts and don't alow for much differences, and there quality control isn't much better.
check your new parts vs. old parts, ask for help on this site.(everyones been very helpful to my problem), make sure you get oil to dstr. gear, all parts look good.
thanks mc and everyone else that has sent me replies i hopfully got this problem whipped!!!!!!!!!
finally back to jeepin!!!!!!
jeepsr4ever
Thats great now you can finally enjoy that engine...BTW it was .120 not .012 :mrgreen:
bobhalverson
one thing no one has addressed is if you suck some air up in your oiling system, where do you think it goes? it's not going to flow down to the rods & mains, air floats!! it will go up & forward in the engine- so it ends up at the front cross galley & will end up in the front cam journal- until the air passes through, you have no oil to the cam & dist gear- we always need to prime the oil system on a new engine start up to give full oil to the gears, and if you pick up any air in off-roading or on a rough circle track, we need to consider raising the oil level in the pan or devising a way to vent air from the front cross galley, such as a .040" hole in the cross galley plug - the only time i had a 360 eat a gear was when we had problems on a rough stock car track & it sucked air on the corners. maybe the extra oil line to the front cover trick would be a good place to vent the air out quickly- after we added another qt to the pan, the oil pressure stayed up & everything lasted well.
buttabean
Help, this is an expensive build with edelbrock pro flo and much more. New everything, except timing cover. It seems to be in great shape, no visible wear. I think the oil pump set might be the problem. It seems to be tight, it feels funny like the gears are pulsating when turned by hand. They can be turned by hand though, so I dont know if that is considered loose enough or not. The oil pump gears seem to be slightly above the deck of the oil pump surface, so I will get some plastigage tomorrow and measure the tolerances.
I also ran 5w30 not knowing any of these issues before hand. How likely is that the cause? I never heard of oil causing extreme wear of this nature?
It is brand new motor, and I had great oil pressure after priming. I am sure it is a tight motor and I was worried about running too thick an oil and blowing gasket and seals.
MC what is your reccomendation from here?
jeepsr4ever
Emailed you
buttabean
OK, frustration setting.
I munched a second gear now. Its been 60 miles or so and I pulled distributor to check it out. I can see the wear straight down the center of the cam gear. It not broke yet, buts it's a few miles away. Looking at the pictures of your gear, it seemed to have flatter surfaces where the gears mate. My cam gear(both) from Mopar seemed to have tapered mating surfaces. I ran stock oil spring, and 10w30. max 2500 rpm. still breaking engine in. Oil was 60-65 psi hot, 70 psi cold at 2000 rpm.
How do I get matched gears from MC. ?
jeepsr4ever
The matched gear sets are around 3 weeks out. If your oil pump is tight you will need to take a file and take the edge off your gears to allow it to turn easier.
buttabean
I need them ASAP. Can I order them anywhere else? Or are they being made custom somewhere? I made sure there was not a rough or sharp edge anywhere on the oil gear. They spin super cleanly and not an edge catches like they did out of the box.
AMC
Have there been any problems with Comp cams?
I have an MST pro billet destributer.
Bad cores, non-matching oiling holes, Gears?
buttabean
MC, did you get any gear sets in yet? I also saw some posts about development of cam buttons last year.
I would like a button as well just to be on the safe side, although I don't beleive I have that issue, I am trying to eliminate as many possibilities as I can.
Please get back to me, I have had my daily driver in the garage now 4 months.
again, I need a cam/dizzy set and cam button.
jeepsr4ever
The whole united states is short on gears........ :oops:
BRAD ARTHUR
i think i used too many of those gears when i had my problem. or problems plural, very frustrating problem.
jeepsr4ever
Hey Brad!! Jeep still running good for you?
